Charles Moore Flintlock Target Pistol

[Enfield58]

I bit the debit-card and bought a Charles Moore Flintlock pistol. The big brown truck brought it yesterday.

It possesses all the qualities one would expect from Pedersoli except for two things.

It is not noticeable at first but I don't like that there appears to be too much of gap between the nose cap and the wood stock. In addition, the wood stock was beginning to show a slight split in the wood where the screw goes to retain the nose cap.

I can fix those imperfections later. For now, I dabbled a little glue in the split line.

Here is the photo of the gap between the nose cap and the stock.

With that said, here is the next photo showing another imperfection. The first prize goes to the person who can find it first. The first prize is ten atta-boys and a cyber pat on the back.

Even though the pistol has a couple of imperfections, I will keep it. The sale price was too good to pass up and Cherry's only had one more in stock. The second imperfection makes it a unique one of a kind (maybe).

The rest of the pistol is really nice. Even though they hadn't coined the term "human factors" in the 18th century, the pistol feels really nice in the hand and points really well.

I like it so much that I ordered another one from DGW. I'd like to put together a nice cased dueling set as they have always fascinated me. Let's see if the second pistol has the same imperfections.

I'm thinking of a load of 25 grains FFFG for a good target load. Any suggestions would be very welcome.

Here's some more pistol porn.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Well powder in Italian is "polvere", so the "v" is not entirely unexpected. Makes one wonder if that got past design approval, what other design flaws made it into production.

 

[Enfield58]

Cherry's web site says; "All of the metal parts are polished steel in German silver color."

It's kind of hard to describe but the finish looks almost like it is plated. I say, almost, but nothing like nickle plated firearms I've looked at in the past.

When you look at the photos, it looks like everything is left in the white. Holding the pistol in your hand is another experience altogether.

Can anyone enlighten me on what German silver really is? With proper care, cleaning and oiling will the metal parts retain the original finish? Or is it possible for this pistol to develop a patina over time?

 

[Enfield58]

Well powder in Italian is "polvere", so the "v" is not entirely unexpected. Makes one wonder if that got past design approval, what other design flaws made it into production.

Congratulations! You are hereby awarded ten atta-boys and a cyber pat on the back!

 

[brawny man]

German silver is a white alloy of nickel, zinc, and copper. Very nice looking pistol.

 

[curator]

It may be that the reason why this pistol was on sale was because it was not "first-quality." Although the Pedersoli company denies it, there are a few "grades" of their products. This is normal with any mass produced product, and nothing to be ashamed about. Distributors like Cherrys and Cimarron seem to get a little better grade than Cabelas and Dixie Gunworks, and their prices reflect this. Having bought from all of them, I am always happy to save some $$$ by fixing a few cosmetic flaws.

 

[Rat]

Love those pistols. To me, that would be a send-back for sure. I realize the gigantic hassle of doing that, and it's a thing I dread the most. Aside from what you have pointed out, I would find the gap between the ram-rod and the underlug, and nose cap to be very unacceptable. There should be zero gap there, let alone, what looks like almost 1/8"? That ram rod, and thimble should be tight up against the barrel/underlug with not even any light showing through. I'm very puzzled that the pistol left the factory that way. The picture on their website shows the ram-rod up tight to the barrel, as it should be. The miss-spelling on the barrel, that would not bother me at all, but add it to the other flaws, and something just is not right. Cherry's (not familiar with them) should not have accepted it, much less sold it to a customer. Sorry to rain on your new pistol. I'm glad you are happy with it, but again, Pedersoli should have not shipped it out just on the barrel markings alone. (again, I would find that "quaint" myself) Cherrys should never have sold it to a customer. Again, my apologies.

 

[Enfield58]

Love those pistols. To me, that would be a send-back for sure. I realize the gigantic hassle of doing that, and it's a thing I dread the most. Aside from what you have pointed out, I would find the gap between the ram-rod and the underlug, and nose cap to be very unacceptable. There should be zero gap there, let alone, what looks like almost 1/8"? That ram rod, and thimble should be tight up against the barrel/underlug with not even any light showing through. I'm very puzzled that the pistol left the factory that way. The picture on their website shows the ram-rod up tight to the barrel, as it should be. The miss-spelling on the barrel, that would not bother me at all, but add it to the other flaws, and something just is not right. Cherry's (not familiar with them) should not have accepted it, much less sold it to a customer. Sorry to rain on your new pistol. I'm glad you are happy with it, but again, Pedersoli should have not shipped it out just on the barrel markings alone. (again, I would find that "quaint" myself) Cherrys should never have sold it to a customer. Again, my apologies.

No need to apologize. I didn't think you were raining on my pistol at all.

You bring up a lot of valid points. I guess, I didn't notice the gap between the ramrod and the underlug. The gap between the nose cap and the stock is something that I can fix. I don't like doing that but it is well within my skill level.

I saved about $260. Had I paid full retail for the pistol, I would have given serious consideration to sending it back.

I'll defend Cherry's as they probably didn't know the pistol was like this. The box was sealed with the Pedersoli seal. So it's my guess that the never saw it.

Besides, it's too late to send it back as I already shot it. I think I put about 3 dozen round through it and I forgot how much fun flintlocks could be.

I didn't have any ffffg powder for the pan but used fffg instead. Most of my flints were either too short or too long but was able to make some of them work.

The pistol (or me) shoots a little to the right. I have not adjusted the sights as I think I might use a lighter load.

Today, I shot the .445" round balls with .015" pillow ticking soaked in olive oil. The patches weren't as tight as I thought they would be. The charge was 20 grains of fffg.

The target below show some promise for the pistol. It looks like a tight cluster of rounds to the right of the bulls eye shows the potential for the pistol.

The rest of the fliers (a lot of them) were my fault.

I have some better flints on order and hope to get another can of ffffg when I can. I'm thinking of dropping the powder charge to about 17 grains of fffg.

 

[Rat]

Thanks, I was afraid I'd truly turned into one of the grumpy old men, and ruined your fun. The rest of the pistol is indeed beautiful...perhaps since you will be looking at the nose cap anyhow, maybe that rear thimble could be inleted in some more, suck it up closer to the barrel, and suck the ram-rod up against the underlug where it belongs. I think it would be worth the effort to correct all the nose cap/ram rod issues, they are probably related. I notice that the forward ram rod thimble is not inset into the under lug, which it should be, and that would be an easy fix also.

After really studying the pics, it looks like Tony really did a nice job of building the gun from the nose cap back, but then called in sick, and then they had a new guy finish it up. ?? Sorry that was a joke.

You will of course want to vary the powder charge both up and down to find the sweet spot. With black powder one would usually go in increases or decreases of five grains at a time, to see any change, so might want to try 15 grains, then try 25.

Okay have fun, the truth is I'm jealous, I'd really love to have one of those.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hi,
Another feature you will like is the set trigger.
By pushing it forward, you will have a very crisp and light trigger.
A short time back, I bought two, one a flintlock, and the other a percussion.
I kept the percussion pistol and sold the flintlock.
My percussion pistol is very accurate.
I can consistently break clay birds at fifty yards ( two hand hold )
This pistol, I WILL keep!
Fred

 

[Enfield58]

Hi,
Another feature you will like is the set trigger.
By pushing it forward, you will have a very crisp and light trigger.
A short time back, I bought two, one a flintlock, and the other a percussion.
I kept the percussion pistol and sold the flintlock.
My percussion pistol is very accurate.
I can consistently break clay birds at fifty yards ( two hand hold )
This pistol, I WILL keep!
Fred

I thought the adjustment screw behind the trigger was to set the pull weight.

I tried the set feature out this morning and thought I heard angels singing when I pulled the trigger.

Just so I don't mess it up can you tell me about the adjustment screw? Can I assume that I turn it clockwise to increase the let off for the set feature and counter-clockwise to reduce it?

In addition, what powder charge are you using?

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Love those pistols. To me, that would be a send-back for sure. I realize the gigantic hassle of doing that, and it's a thing I dread the most. Aside from what you have pointed out, I would find the gap between the ram-rod and the underlug, and nose cap to be very unacceptable. There should be zero gap there, let alone, what looks like almost 1/8"? That ram rod, and thimble should be tight up against the barrel/underlug with not even any light showing through. I'm very puzzled that the pistol left the factory that way. The picture on their website shows the ram-rod up tight to the barrel, as it should be. The miss-spelling on the barrel, that would not bother me at all, but add it to the other flaws, and something just is not right. Cherry's (not familiar with them) should not have accepted it, much less sold it to a customer. Sorry to rain on your new pistol. I'm glad you are happy with it, but again, Pedersoli should have not shipped it out just on the barrel markings alone. (again, I would find that "quaint" myself) Cherrys should never have sold it to a customer. Again, my apologies.

I agree. I would have never accepted that pistol, OP. I once bought a Pedersoli Harper’s Ferry percussion pistol and it had several flaws, the hammer didn’t line up with the nipple, dimples in the walnut stock, etc. I sent it back to Dixie Gun Works with a detailed explanation and a request to have their in-house gunsmith look over the replacement pistol. It arrived with 0 flaws and has been an ideal shooter.

I’ve never dealt with Cherry’s and don’t know if they’ll accept the gun back for replacement since you fired it, but there may still be time. Frankly the nosecap looks awful and the ramrod extremely misplaced. The only way Pedersoli (and the end distributors) will know they need to improve quality is to get these flawed pistols returned. Think of it as helping the next guy down the road. With the cost of these guns, these issues should not be tolerated. Sloppy worksmanship is all it is.

 

[Rat]

Here's what I've been thinking, for what it's worth. Dealing with the distributors, sending the gun back, and all that, I can more than understand the reluctance to do that. Since Enfield58 seems to be an excellent photographer, why not send those pics, and more, directly to Pedersoli, and just straight-out ask them for a replacement. Keep the pistol, heck, keep shooting it, until they agree to an exchange. All they can say is no. Possibly, they might be horrified, and bend over backwards to replace the pistol. ?? Just a thought.

 

[Enfield58]

Here's what I've been thinking, for what it's worth. Dealing with the distributors, sending the gun back, and all that, I can more than understand the reluctance to do that. Since Enfield58 seems to be an excellent photographer, why not send those pics, and more, directly to Pedersoli, and just straight-out ask them for a replacement. Keep the pistol, heck, keep shooting it, until they agree to an exchange. All they can say is no. Possibly, they might be horrified, and bend over backwards to replace the pistol. ?? Just a thought.

Good idea. I sent them an e-mail. It was on their contact page. So I couldn't send photos but described it well enough.

I'll keep everyone posted if they contact me.

 

[Rat]

Cool, it should be interesting, no matter how it plays out. Did you send a "copy" of the email the Cherrys?

 

[Enfield58]

Cool, it should be interesting, no matter how it plays out. Did you send a "copy" of the email the Cherrys?

I couldn’t CC cherry’s on the message.

Besides, it wasn’t their fault because the box was sealed at the factory. They couldn’t look in the box without breaking the seal.

 

[Stony Broke]

I bought one of those about 6 months ago, and have never gotten around to firing it yet ! Mine is percussion and I have one of their Kentucky models that I use regularly to shoot matches that is also percussion. I use 20 grains of 3f in mine, and it does very well with that load.

 

[Enfield58]

I bought one of those about 6 months ago, and have never gotten around to firing it yet ! Mine is percussion and I have one of their Kentucky models that I use regularly to shoot matches that is also percussion. I use 20 grains of 3f in mine, and it does very well with that load.

I was shooting 20 grains in mine as well. I thought about dropping down to 17 grains but think I will stick with 20.

How is the wood-to-metal fit on your pistol? Does your pistol have any issue with the nose cap like mine?

 

[Stantheman86]

That's honestly one of the best looking firearms I've ever seen, I love it.

Those cosmetic flaws are nothing that wouldn't have been found on a hand fitted period piece if you really broke out a fine tooth comb. I have S&W revolvers from the 1920's with some minute fitting flaws , no big deal.

The only flaw I see is that horrible dot matrix factory stamping on the barrel. My Pedersoli .45 Kentucky has that and I hate it.

It looks like it shoots, I'd just keep it and enjoy it. Especially if you got a good deal on it, after a few thousand rounds it will have handling marks and dings anyway.

 

[Rat]

I was shooting 20 grains in mine as well. I thought about dropping down to 17 grains but think I will stick with 20.

How is the wood-to-metal fit on your pistol? Does your pistol have any issue with the nose cap like mine?

But...but...to find the most accurate powder charge, one must start low, and work up. Can't just choose X amount of powder. Again, after getting your tightest group by going up and down in 5 grain increases and decreases, then you can further fine tune in 3 grain variations, although it's going to be pretty hard to make any determinations with that small of changes, with black powder. Also, such shooting will require a really steady, bench-rest hold, and no wind. ?? 20 grains is a great starting point, but then try 15, then 25, 30, etc. As you go up, or down, groups will shrink or expand. First they "should" shrink, then open up again. Once they open up, go back five grains and that should be your most accurate load. Then you can do it all over with different ball and patch combinations. !!!!!

Groups should be much more than three shots. If you don't wipe between shots, your bore condition is going to vary with each shot, which will skew your results.

On the other hand, after all of that, I guess that if you like 20 grains, and it shoots "good enough" for you...then that's fine too. !!!!