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Centennial Arms 1960 Army

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FV Rago

40 Cal.
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Need some info on a pistolla I just picked up.


Berts001e.jpg


Berts002e.jpg


Cal. .44 steel frame army that is a model "1960" made by Centennial Arms. Probably made in the early '60s.

Revolver is nice and tight, cyclinder in time, just curious about the gun as I can't find any info. on Centennial Arms.

Any help would be greately appreciated.

Frank
 
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=15411.35;wap2

Centaure" is how the Europeans (me included) call the Belgian Colts made by Fabriques d'Armes Unies de Liege. They call them Centaure because of the Centaur logo on the left forward side of the frame.
Most of these Belgian Colts are marked "CENTENNIAL" on the barrel, either "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY" CENTENNIAL TRADE MARK, or CENTENNIAL TRADE MARK "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY" (with our without CHICAGO U.S.A.): I believe that's why my US pards call them "Centennials" or "Centennial Colts".
 
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"Centennial Arms Corp: This firm was formed in the middle-late 1950's, purely for the purpose of having produced abroad modern copies of muzzle loading guns for sale here. The first item was called "New Model 1960 .44 Army" and was an accurate physical copy of the original Colt 1860 Army Revolver. Care was taken that the gun differed from the original enough to avoid confusion. Orders immediately surpassed the capacity of the Belgian factory to produce guns. The factory, incidentally, had at one time been licensed by Colt to produce percussion revolvers so, after a full century, was back in production of the same item. Eventually, other replica arms were added to the line and are offered today, as listed below..."BLACK POWDER GUIDE Shooters Bible, Major George Nonte, 1969 (p18).

This book also gives Centennial Arms Corp., 3318 W. Devon, Chicago, Ill. 60645 as the address of the now defunct company.

zonie :)
 
FVR:

Another responder kindly provided the link above to one of many threads on the Cas City forum concerning the Belgian-made 1860 Army "Centennial".

In it, you will see several replies from a frequent poster on Cas City, "Long Johns Wolf", aka Wolf D. Niederastroth. Wolf is a collector and "cowboy" shooter in Germany who at present is conducting a project to document the production and distribution history of the Belgian 60 Army "Colts".

This is a fascinating corner of cap-and-ball history, and most of the original records no longer exist. Wolf has designed a survey form for current owners in order to gather data about specific features of individual pistols.

From that information, he hopes to separate the facts from the myth in a very colorful story that may begin with the execution of a contract between Samuel Colt and a consortium of Belgian arms manufacturers in 1853.

A description of his project and an outline of the "Belgian Colt Story" as it is popularly understood may be published in a magazine article later this year, and a larger article about survey results is planned for early next year.

He would be most pleased to hear from you and any other "Centennial" owners out there, and for the opportunity to send you a copy of his survey form. If you agree, I can provide him with the e-mail address as shown in your Profile.

Thanks for your consideration of this request.

regards,
WT
 
WOW!!

Wolf has contacted me and has sent the questionaires.

Just wow.

I will be taking some time this weekend to complete and email back. Pictures may be limited as I do not have a camera that talks with my computer yet. The current pics are from Bert.

Thanks,

Frank
 
Yours looks to be in great shape. They reportedly prefer a .451 ball. Enjoy the smoke & flame, and let us know how she shoots

WT
 
Thanks W.T. for the kind introduction.
If any of you pards is a happy owner of one of these fine Belgian Colts, aka Centennial Colts, aka "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY" as my American pards call them, or Centaure as we know these C&B revolvers in Europe, and would care to have it included in my research project, please send me a PM and in return I'll mail the questionaire. Once completed the specific data of your priced pistol will be included in the survey.
With a little help from my pards in the USA and Europe I could already identify 3 models and a couple of major variation of this interesting pistol. Unfortunately production was terminated during the mid 1970 in Belgium and no more production records exist.
Once the study is completed I will gladly share the results with you.
Thank you kindly, Long Johns Wolf
 
Long Johns Wolf: Welcome to The Muzzleloading Forum.

Among our 9500+ members there may be a few of these Centennial 1960 owners who can help you.

While your waiting for them to answer, I hope you join into our discussions in all of the different forum areas here that interest you. We are always looking for folks who enjoy shooting pre-cartridge black powder guns. :)

zonie :)
 
As mentioned above, Centennial Arms was a early importer of European made copies during the early revival of percussion pistols. Other early importers were Replica Arms and Navy Arms, navy Arms is the only one still in business. Also as mentioned, these early guns had smaller chambers than originals or later repos and took balls around .451" rather than .454" or .457" as now used. You can also see the recoil shield is under-cut for a stock though it has no extending screws to fit one. I'm sure they worked form an original pistol of the "4 screw" type which was fitted for one. That's not a problem but is one of the small "oops" things seen on some of the early guns. My first was an 1860 from Replica Arms and I loved it. One day some low-life decided he needed it more than me...still hope to find it again some day.
 
FVR: your Centaure pistols has a screw that looks like a trigger stop. If it can be proven that it is factory original you got yourself a rare, possibly unique pistol.
If someone could tell me how to attach pics to my post I will gladly share with you the description of models and variations of these Belgian Colts already identified.
Long Johns Wolf
 
Zonie: thanks for the kind words.
My primary shooting interest is with replicas of early cartridge pistols, conversions and OTs, and Henries, all in .44 Colt caliber.
I shoot the holy black in my 1988 ASP/Colt 1860 because she is made from stainless steel which is forgiving in the cleaning department shoot.
Have exchanged the factory grips on my shooting irons with Larry Little's PU ivory grips. Why? Because I like to fit them, the cool looks and more positive grip from the sculptured right panel.
Long Johns Wolf
 
LJW - I want to see those pictures, so here's what I do:

Go to[url] www.photobucket.com[/url] and register for a free account. Follow their instructions to upload your pictures to your account on that site.

Once uploaded, your pictures will appear as small thumbnails with three windows underneath whenever you log onto the photobucket site. Left click once in the bottom window (the one labeled "IMG code") of the picture you want to post; that copies the image address into memory on your computer.

Then return to this site (you can leave the photobucket window open or log out, whichever you want) and open the message you want to post. Type your message and then put the cursor in the location in the message where you want the picture to appear.

Right click once on that location; select Copy in the popup window. That will place a text line in your message that contains the image address on the photobucket site in between two special text codes.

When you post your message those codes will tell the Muzzleloading Forum server to go to the photobucket site and insert the image found at that location.

The image will continue to appear to anyone who opens the message as long as you leave the image on the photobucket site. If you ever delete the image from photobucket it will no longer appear when the message opens.
 
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Here is some info I dug up on this import gun.

IIn the late 1950s, Val Forgett, the founder of Navy
Arms, and Italian gunmaker Aldo Uberti selected the
Colt 1851 Navy as the first percussion era revolver to be
reproduced. And what a legendary gun they had chosen.
This was the celebrated six-shooter carried by James
Butler Hickok and the sidearm used extensively Union
and Confederate soldiers during the Civil War. The Colt
Navy was instantly recognizable and immediately popular
as the first modern black powder Colt style replica.
Thus, after a dozen years and thousands of copies, the
1851 Navy finally came to the attention of the company
that had originally manufactured it, Colt.
By 1971, Navy Arms Company had become the leading
importer of Italian made Colt-style black powder
revolvers, as well as other historic black powder arms. Val
Forgett had virtually created the American black powder
industry. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, he had personally
underwritten the costs of design and development
for several models, along with author and historian
William B. Edwards. A founder of Guns magazine
and a principal in the Centennial Arms Company,
Edwards was another of the early importers of Civil War
replicas and an instrumental link between Forgett and
Italian gunmakers Vittorio Gregorelli, Aldo Uberti, and
Luciano Amadi, the Italian black powder industry's version
of "The Three Tenors." This, of course, all took
place long before Colt's became involved in manufacturing
reproductions of their own 19th century designs.

Some great info here in pdf format![url] https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/POWDER/MBPHistoryOfColtBlack.pdf[/url]


An orginal box

1860ArmyCentennialArmsBox.jpg
 
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I too was initially bothered by the lack of a fourth screw on a frame cut for shoulder stock. Then whilst at collectors firearms in Houston Texas I see several original Colt armys in the exact same configuration and recently began to notice the same variation in the colt books by RL Wilson and Dennis Adler both. I now concede there were many cut for shoulder stock frames with just three screws..go figure.
 
Wolf,

I must have hit the wrong key and lost the completed form. I will pull the pistolla out sometime this weekend and go through it again.

Thanks,

Frank
 
Howdy pards interested in the Belgian Colt Army aka Centaure, etc. Since I cannot load pics from my files I have to write. Below is a list of known models/variations today, sorted by barrel length. 3 basis models are known. This is an extract from the draft of my final article.
8" barrel, 6 variations are known. Here are the blued/cch variations:
# Pistols with rebated/plain cylinder were the first made in 1960, regularly available til the end of production. They are relatively rare in the USA but represent the majority of pistols found in Europe. They have the regular blue/cch finish with 3-screw frame cut for stock in recoil shield and backstrap. 3 barrel markings were found so far: #1 "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY", #2 "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY" CENTENNIAL TRADE MARK; #3 CENTENNIAL TRADE MARK "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY".
# Civilian Model: important early but rare variation with "C" prefix before the serial. Manufactured from late 1960 in a separate block of S/Ns starting with C1. Only slightly over 500 were made.Finish blue/cch with silver plated trigger-guard and back-strap, 3-screw frame without cuts for shoulderstock. Cylinder bears the proprietary Centaure naval scene, i. e. like Colt but with less background detail. About 500 pistols were made with the legend ENGAGED 16TH 1983 and NEW MODEL 44 between the scene. Barrel marking "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY"
#Relatively common in the USA but rare in Europe the variation with the proprietary Centaure Naval scene but sports regular 3-screw frame with recoil shield and backstrap cut for stock. Barrel marking "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY" CENTENNIAL TRADE MARK followed sometimes by CHICAGO U.S.A (for US importer Centennial Arms Corp., Chicago).
# Centaure pistols with Colt-type naval scene engraved into the cylinder, plus the legend ENGAGED 16TH MAY 1843 and CENTENNIAL between the scene have only been reported from the USA so far. 2 types of barrel marking are known: #1 "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY" CENTENNIAL TRADE MARK, #2 CENTENNIAL TRADE MARK "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY"
Long Johns Wolf
 
Howdy pards: further 8" model variations of the Belgian, finishes other than blue/cch:
# Centaures with fully fluted cylinder, 3-screw frame with recoil shield and backstrap cut for stock, high gloss polish/"in the white" finish were produced from around 1972, very rare in the USA, quite common in Europe. Barrel marking "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY"
# Stainless steel versions have surfaced in Europe manufactured during 1972. Like the afore mentioned variation they sport the regular 3-screw frame with cuts of stock and fully fluted cylinders. Barrel marking CENTENNIAL TRADE MARK "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY"
As mentioned before: if your have one of these Belgians and want to have it included in my survey send me a PM and I mail the questionaire.
Long Johns Wolf
 
Further models of the Belgian Colts have been identified.
# Only one model has been encountered with 7,5" barrel, dubbed Cavalry Model in Europe: fluted cylinder, 4-screw frame, serials with "F" prefix. The 4th screw functions to stabilize the shoulder-stock. Probably only a few hundreds were manufactured from 1961 in a separate block of serials starting with F1. Only blue/cch finish. Regular accessory was a shoulder-stock numbered to the gun. This model owes its being to the NRAs efforts in amending existing outmoded laws regarding stocked pistols. Cavalry Models with original stock can be considered collector's items. Barrel marking "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY"
# So called Marshall Models have 5,5" barrels without barrel marking. Fluted cylinders, recoil shield and back-strap cut for shoulder-stock and an high gloss polish/"in the white" finish are standard. During the 1860 no 1860 Army ever left the Colt factory with a barrel shorter than 6,5" but this Marshall is an easy handling sixgun for blackpowder cowboy shooting. 2 Variations: #1 with 3-screw frames are regular, #2 with the very rare 4-screw frames. Contrary to the Cavalry Model the 4th screw has a flat head.
# Factory engraved and other exotic pistols: according to one of the principal German importers of Centaure revolvers from the late 1960s many more pistols were engraved outside the factory by him than are known and confirmed factory engraved specimen. Factory engraved pistols known feature rebated cylinders with "in the white" finish. Different style of traditional European engraving could be ordered which would cover 60 to > 90 % of the gun. Oiled dark walnut grips were standard, could be had with inlaid centaur logo. There is pictorial proof of one deeply engraved specimen with the rebated cylinder with 8" barrel and fitted shoulder stock with matching engraving on yoke and butt plate.
# One cut-away pistol of the 8"barrel, rabated/plain cylinder, blue/cch, 3-screw frame cut for stock configuration is known.
Again my request: if you own one of these Belgian let my know because I would like to include her in my research project. And, may be, yours might be another rare specimen of significant collector's value. Just send me a PM.
Long Johns Wolf
 
Zonie: could you let me have the text of that Nonte reference from the 1969 Black Powder Guide Shooters Bible as a scan (email under my profile) or fax (+49-6192-901293) for my "Belgian Colt" library, please?
Much obliged, Long Johns Wolf
 
Rather than photocopying the section of the book that I was quoting in part, I'll just rewrite all the book has to say about the company here:

"CENTENNIAL ARMS CORP. : This firm was formed in the middle-late 1950's, purely for the purpose of having produced abroad modern copies of muzzle loading guns for sale here. The first item was called "New Model 1960 .44 Army" and was an accurate physical copy of the original Colt 1860 Army Revolver. Care was taken that the gun differed from the original enough to avoid confusion. Orders immediately surpassed the capacity of the Belgian factory to produce guns. The factory, incidentally, had at one time been licensed by Colt to produce percussion revolvers so, after a full century, was back in production of the same item. Eventually, other replica arms were added to the line and are offered today, as listed below:

NEW MODEL 1960 .44 ARMY : An accurate copy of the original Colt, 1860 Army. Eight-inch barrel; hammer, frame, and rammer case hardened in colors; cylinder, barrel, and back trap blued, guard silver plated; round rebated cylinder, engraved scene; one-piece smooth walnut grips.

HARPERS FERRY : Copy of the Model 1805 .54 caliber U.S. Martial flintlock pistol dated 1807 and manufactured at Harpers Ferry Arsenal. Ten-inch rifled barrel, 16" long, overall; bright barrel, polished brass furniture; lock case hardened in colors; polished walnut stock. Fully shootable with patched round ball.

VIRGINIA FLINTLOCK : Identical to Harpers Ferry Model above except lock plate marked "Virginia" instead of "Harpers Ferry"; metal swivel ramrod; and minor detail changes.

TOWER PISTOL : Copy of the basic British military flintlock horse pistol in use during the late 18th Century. Smoothbore, .69 caliber; bright barrel and lock; brass furniture, walnut-finish stock. Primarily a decorator.

COACH BLUNDERBUSS : An accurate rendition of the general type flared-barrel flintlock blunderbuss. Only 27 1/2" long overall, bright barrel and lock, blued guard and furniture; ebony-finish stock. Shootable.

HOPKINS & ALLEN (NUMRICH ARMS)..."
"BLACK POWDER GUIDE Shooters Bible, Major George Nonte, 1969 (p18).

Page 19 shows pictures of all of the models mentioned except for the blunderbuss.
 
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