Caywood Wilson Trade Gun

[OldgoatDVet]

Hello the camp.
Any one own A Caywood Wilson? I am about to drop hammer on one. In and all information
Appreciate. Thanks,
Oldgoat

 

[Stony Broke]

I owned one for a longtime. I was somewhat happy with it, but in some respects it could have been better. I ordered a rifled barrel for it that they offered, but ended up sending it back as the wood fit was not good, and they were a little short tempered with me in regard to my opinion. I would have had to open up the barrel part of the stock to get it to fit right and then the original smoothbore barrel would not have fit as it should. It was tight enough that I worried about splitting the stock trying to get it shoved into place. The original smoothbore barrel worked okay.

 

[Sam squanch]

Be aware - he doesn’t believe in touch hole liners.

 

[OldgoatDVet]

Thank y’all for a good truthful reply.
Keep your powder dry.
Oldgoat

 

[OldgoatDVet]

Do y’all or any else that makes a good Wilson Trade gun?
Oldgoat

 

[plmeek]

I don't own a Wilson Trade Gun, but I do own a Caywood NW Trade Gun that was built from one of his kits. I'm not sure there is much difference between the two models other than the shape of the butt stock. The locks look similar, but the Wilson Trade Gun lock has floral or rococo engraving while the NW lock has the "fox-in-the-circle" stamp. The Wilson Trade Gun may have the earlier style trigger guard with "bulbous" finials.

Caywoods locks appear to be top notch. I'm the second owner of the NW gun. At some time the original owner converted the lock to percussion and installed front and rear sights so he could use it for big game hunting. I have a spare Caywood flintlock in case I ever want to convert it back to flint.

Caywood is definitely opinionated and not too flexible on mods to his basic models, but he produces quality products from what I can tell.


Sitting Fox Custom Muzzleloaders makes a similar gun they call an Early English Trade Gun. There have been a couple of threads on this forum in the last 12 months where people weren't satisfied with the quality of Sitting Fox guns/kits they received. You might want to look up these threads before considering them.

These guns should be made with English Walnut to be HC. Caywood says he won't work with walnut due to health/allergies, so you likely will end up with a maple stock if you order from him, but it could be presented as a gun that was restocked in America after the original stock broke.

 

[OldgoatDVet]

Thanks bud I so appreciate your information on his guns.
Keep your powder dry.
Oldgoat

 

[plmeek]

Here are some pics of my Caywood NW Trade Gun. This is a nice slim gun with no extra wood like it should be. The barrel is 35 in. long and 20 gauge. The Caywood dragon side plate has the best detail of any available.

This is my spare Caywood NW flintlock.

 

[Cruzatte]

Hello the camp.
Any one own A Caywood Wilson? I am about to drop hammer on one. In and all information
Appreciate. Thanks,
Oldgoat

Yup, I own one. They're fine pieces. Mine is the one that got me hooked on smooth bores. It has a 41" barrel and is 20 ga. Using square loads, (2¼ dr. 2fg, and 7/8 oz. of shot) I've managed to break a few clay pigeons. With the same powder charge, a .010" greased patch, and a .600 ball it shoots where I'm looking.
I think you'll really like it.

P.S. Don't sweat the direct touch hole. It's pretty forgiving. Follow the directions on drilling and countersinking and you'll be fine.

 

[Dismount]

Hello the camp.
Any one own A Caywood Wilson? I am about to drop hammer on one. In and all information
Appreciate. Thanks,
Oldgoat

. I have one Wilson .62. Got way back in 1996. Heavy trigger pull but it’s the most accurate and fastest smooth bore I own. Don’t know if the new ones are as good. But I wouldn’t sell mine for all the tea in china. Shot doves duck wild hog deer. Won a few matches with it.

 

[French Colonial]

I have a Caywood type C fusil with a D side plate that Danny did for me by special request (Just LOVE the hogs and dogs engraving) and he was very accommodating, but he does have a problem with touch hole liners.

I put one in anyway and the gun has given me years of service with absolutely no issues. The lock sparks well and the gun fits me perfectly, unlike the Miroku brown Bess that I used to own which did not fit me at all.
I hold Caywood guns in high regard.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I have a flintlock Caywood Northwest gun in 24 gauge. I am the original owner, and ordered it directly from Mr. Caywood. The lock is excellent, and the trigger is good. Wood to metal fit is very good. It is a good shooter, and I like it very much. As @plmeek said, I don't think there is a lot of difference between Caywood's Northwest guns and his Wilson guns, other than the shape of the buttstock, the buttplate, and the guard.

As noted, Mr. Caywood does not like vent liners. I agree with him, and believe they are vastly overrated. I think they have an important function in rifles with swamped barrels and heavy breeches, but for a smoothbore, with a barrel wall thickness around .200"? I have four flintlock smoothbores, including a Pedersoli Charleville, a Jackie Brown fowling piece, a NSW Northwest gun, and the Caywood Northwest gun. None have vent liners, and all work very well. If you have a good lock and the right size vent in the right place, ignition is fast and positive.

I understand I am probably in the minority here, and I'm not trying to "convert" anybody to my point of view. Mr. Caywood has reasons for his methods, and I agree with him.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I worked over the lock, trigger, and touch hole on a Caywood trade gun owned by a top notch shooter. It was a gun made in the 1990s and very well made for what it represented. The owner did well with it but he always hated the slow ignition and heavy trigger pull. He wrote a popular book and guide to shooting flintlocks published by the NMLRA so he knows flintlocks. Anyway, we tested the gun at my range and the ignition was terribly slow, a really obvious click, whoosh, ...bang every shot. I drilled out the touch hole and installed a Chambers' White Lightning vent liner and his slow ignition issue was gone. The next issue was the trigger pull. I examined the lock carefully and was very impressed by the quality of it. Whoever made the lock knew his business and it was the equal of the Chamber's round-faced English lock in every regard. It needed polishing internally, and I worked on the full cock notch to reduce the trigger pull. I polished up the frizzen spring, which smoothed the action of it and I also case hardened the frizzen in bone and wood charcoal and tempered it. It was fine before but I improved its sparking by casing it. I also lightened the mainspring, which was unnecessarily strong. Those changes reduced trigger pull quite a bit but I discovered the real secret to that for this particular gun. There is no metal trigger plate. The trigger is just slotted into the wood as it should be on this style trade gun. However, the rear of the trigger lever is supported by the trigger guard. Without the guard in place the lever pivots below the level of the stock. Therefore, trigger pull is affected by how much the screw behind the trigger guard bow is tightened as long as the trigger lever is high enough to always make contact with the sear at full cock (no trigger rattle at full cock). If that is the case and you tighten that screw, the guard pushes the rear of the trigger lever upward making trigger pull lighter. Loosening the screw does the opposite up to a point. The trigger rattled at full cock so I welded steel on top of the lever bar, ground it to shape until it just touched the sear at full cock. I cased the trigger when I did the frizzen. Then after working on the lock and then tightening the trigger guard screw a little more than it originally was, I lightened the pull substantially. None of this indicates a problem with the gun. It is just useful information if you own one. I reduced his trigger pull to just under 2lbs, his lock sparks really well every time, and ignition is now lightning fast.

dave

 

[Eric Bye]

I am the fortunate owner of the smoothbore that Dave describes. I have owned and shot the gun since 1997. I was always happy with the quality and the accuracy, but the slow ignition kept me from enjoying the gun to the fullest. Dave's modifications were precisely the right remedy. I am delighted with this smoothbore and am excited about shooting it for many more years.

 

[Leadball loader]

I am the fortunate owner of the smoothbore that Dave describes. I have owned and shot the gun since 1997. I was always happy with the quality and the accuracy, but the slow ignition kept me from enjoying the gun to the fullest. Dave's modifications were precisely the right remedy. I am delighted with this smoothbore and am excited about shooting it for many more years.

Shooting my Tulle Fusil de Chasse without a vent liner and modern improvements has let me experience the challenge that faced the shooters of the 18th century. That has made my shooting a lot more meaningful knowing what it was like back then if not as easy as today.
I hope to meet the challenge as they did and am having fun doing it!
LBL

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Vent liners are not modern improvements. I have a 300-yr old Spanish barrel that was originally mounted with a funneled touch hole liner. That was the common practice for those barrel makers. However, trade guns certainly were not fitted with liners originally like the better quality English fowlers made at the time.

dave

 

[wattlebuster]

I regretfully sold my Caywood english game gun. Never once had a problem with the coned vent. It was fast an sure. I consider Caywood locks as the fastest out there. In my personal experience the only lock I have thats as fast or seems to be is the Chambers early ketland. My go to deer rifle sports a Caywood wilson lock. So far its never let me down

 

[OldgoatDVet]

Hi,
Vent liners are not modern improvements. I have a 300-yr old Spanish barrel that was originally mounted with a funneled touch hole liner. That was the common practice for those barrel makers. However, trade guns certainly were not fitted with liners originally like the better quality English fowlers made at the time.

dave

Thanks bud, hope you and your have a blessed day.
Oldgoat

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Mike Rowe originally had the design and production of many of those Caywood locks IIRC. He had a good handle on what makes a clock (I mean a lock ) tick.

 

[Dismount]

Mike Rowe originally had the design and production of many of those Caywood locks IIRC. He had a good handle on what makes a clock (I mean a lock ) tick.