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Caywood english fowler lock trigger adjustment.

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Joined
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Location
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I have a Caywood English Fowler that when the lock is tightened down the cock won't stay cocked. If I loosen the screws a turn or two it will work fine. I believe its alignment with the trigger and the sear. Is there a adjustment on the trigger or would this be on the lock side. I just purchased this gun used and cant find anything for adjustments online. I have a call into Caywood but I'm sure they are busy.
Thanks for any help
 
There are no easy adjustments you can make , you should use some lipstick or somesuch on the seer , to see where the trigger touches the seer with the screws loose and where it touches with the screws tight . You may need to file a little off the trigger bar , or bend the seer or pack out the lock . Lets see what others have to say , I had a similar problem on my Caywood Wilson trade gun and reduced the height of the trigger by about 2 mm to fix it .
 
Tough to diagnose this problem w/o seeing the gun. With the lock screws tightened , can you hear , feel the full cock and safety notch position? First ,........ remove the lock and put some inletting black on the end of the sear arm and reinstall the lock , tighten screws normally , and tap the lock face lightly to seat the lock into the lock mortise. Remove the lock , and look for the tell tale black smudge of the end of the sear arm inside the bottom of the sear hole in the mortise. Do the same test for the sear arm , after trying to cock the gunlock. Any sign of a smudge from the inletting black , wood should be removed. Second......Put some inletting black on top of the curve of the main spring , do the same test. Reassemble , tap , and cycle the lock , look for a smudge. Remove offending wood. .........Next , we look at the lock function. Remove the lock Work the lock through the safety , half cock position ,put a drop of light oil on the fly , make sure it flips, when the lock is cycled to full cock ,and make sure the sear seats firmly into the firing notch. All these mechanical functions are visible to the eye and can be studied to ascertain the lock is working as intended. If you aren't comfortable working on the mechanical parts , it's best to take or send it to someone qualified to fix it. This whole problem is a major SAFETY issue. If when assembled , the trigger has no detectable play in the full cock position , The top of the trigger may have to have a tiny bit of clearance ground from the top where the sear arm touches the top of the trigger. Never do this until the lock mechanism , and wood fit is examined first. Questions? ..................oldwood
 
As oldwood said, it isn't the lock. Either the trigger blade is too high or there is something hitting the sear arm. I use a candle flame to black the parts. Then install the lock and work it a few times. You will see black marks where the parts are dragging. Scrape or chisel them off and do it again until nothing drags. Then clean and lube the lock.
Pay attention to the bottom of the hole where the sear arm end might be bottoming out. You can grind a bit off the end of the arm.
Next would be the trigger bar clearance with the sear arm. The trigger should have a slight clearance at all hammer positions. The better made rifles will have a small weak spring to hold a slight pressure on the sear, but I bet yours doesn't. It should move a little.
 
If you don't have some candles ,or inletting black , Use some of your wife's , girlfriend's , oldest daughter's, lipstick. You might get some positive female feedback . Careful about staying in the shop for hours , then out at the range for days. It's all good.
 
I vote for the end of the sear arm hitting inside the inlet. I don't see how tightening the lock screws would change the interior vertical alignments that would suggest trigger bar-sear issues. But it would certainly affect horizontal clearances affecting the end of the sear arm or possibly even the tumbler.
 
Looks straight forward the sear is binding on the wood either in the lock housing or in the leg hole to the trigger .
Feltwad
 
Hi,
No it could be wood or the trigger bar. By tightening the rear lock bolt, the top of the lock plate may actually toe further in the mortise angling the sear bar down slightly against the trigger. If the trigger is already under a little tension from the sear, that tightening the rear bolt may push the sear down too much to grab at full cock.

dave
 
Hi,
Caywood is a fine gun maker but sometimes it is hard to anticipate all conditions. For example, if the gun is made where it is dry and sent to someplace very humid, or the reverse, wood swells and shrinks possibly changing the orientation of parts. That is particularly true for fitting the trigger to the sear for a light pull with no creep. I've occasionally had to adjust guns I built after they were used in very humid or very dry conditions. However, if the gun went newly made out of the shop not tested by the maker and not able to hold safely at full cock because the trigger bar was too high or wood interfered, that is a serious indictment.

dave
 
Ok this is great info. Just for the record I bought the gun used. I left a message with caywood to get some info possibly for this gun like approximate year of manufacture and the same question I asked here. I guess I’m a little impatient so I asked here.
 

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If you are seeing movement when the lock is tightened, the inlet isn't correct. Another thing, many tighten the lock bolts too tight. They just need to be snug. You may be bowing the lock plate.
 
It may be the inlet. Remove the lock and carefully examine the wood at the bottom of the inlet. If you see any shiny spots take them down with a small wood chisle. Have done this many times. It can be a simple fix to what you describe. BTW, tightening the lock screws need not be a Hulk effort. Very slightly snug is all that is required.
 
Thanks for the helpful ideas i will try that. So I thought Caywood was a decent gun maker? Better than box store models. I will look for that spring on the lock also.
The Caywood guns are replicas of the original guns , so the lock will not have the spring on the lock . My Caywood was second hand and I suspect someone fiddled with it .
 
So I took a file and filed out a little bit out it seems to be better. My question when you all say the lock should my be cranked down I get that but how tight should it be? Pictures for reference if someone sees something I’m missing. Another question at full cock if I whack the cock with the palm of my hand it will sometimes drop the cock. Not a hard whack but push. I’m a little paranoid this thing is going to go off when I don’t want it to. When I started I would shut the frozen and would go off randomly. When I was trying to figure this out.
 

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If you do not have any experience in adjusting the sear engagement....PLEASE find someone who does.

That is an unsafe condition, it can be fixed but someone qualified needs to work on it.
 
With the lock out and on full cock can you push on the cock and does it fall?

If so, it is sear engagement

If not then something is pushing on the sear when the lock is installed enough to move the sear.
 
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