Can or should you paper patch a Lee REAL bullet?

[Imacfrog]

The more I get into this hobby the deep the rabbit hole goes! So last week-end I learn all about Lee REAL bullets, now my question is; can use a paper patch on them or just lube them? If you can paper patch them, what are the benefits compared to the downside? Maybe, I am not fully understanding the concept of paper patching, so please feel free to educated me! Thanks

 

[tenngun]

If your going to hunt with it you need to know how it will shoot, and at different ranges.
It’s not hard on your gun, so can be your only projectile. They’re more expensive then ball and may take a little bigger charge then a ball.
They are not an authentic projectile but not much different then a minie or a picket
They are made to be loaded sans any patch so paper patch will be an added bit of time

 

[APG]

My experience with the REAL is limited to me casting and shooting them out of a Traditions Hawkins .50cal rifled muzzleloader. I didn't use anything other than the lube I put on. That being a 50/50 mix of beeswax and lamb tallow with a shot of olive oil. I like shoot about 20 before cleaning out the bore. 40-45 grains of 2fg black powder is what I was using. I don't hunt with them so I have no say on that.

 

[Imacfrog]

When you say a bigger charge, how much exactly? Currently using an 80 grain charge with a PRB. Looking at trying a 250 grain REAL.

Please bear with me as I am a neophyte and am going by the prior owner's recommendation. Should I be using less? more? I am pretty deadly on a 10" fry pan out to 35 yards which due to the thick brush here in Maine seems a realistic expectation. Any help or advice is always welcome.

 

[Woody Morgan]

I keep it simple. 1/8 felt wad in olive oil and 60 grains of 3f OE. Quick to load and works very well in my Deerhunter.
Easy cleanup and keeps fouling soft.
250 grain slug is clean cast, no extra lube.

wm

 

[tenngun]

When you say a bigger charge, how much exactly? Currently using an 80 grain charge with a PRB. Looking at trying a 250 grain REAL.

Please bear with me as I am a neophyte and am going by the prior owner's recommendation. Should I be using less? more? I am pretty deadly on a 10" fry pan out to 35 yards which due to the thick brush here in Maine seems a realistic expectation. Any help or advice is always welcome.

A ball may shoot well with one charge, but you may need to boost a bit to get good groups with a real. To get best you have to upset the base.
And then again maybe not, you would just have to experiment with it.

 

[Imacfrog]

So it is trial and error? There is no set formula?

 

[mooman76]

I would think you could but I would also think you would need to size the REAL first. I'm thinking why when there are better bullet choices that have already been tried and tested?

 

[R.J.Bruce]

The top band on a .50 caliber Lee R.E.A.L. bullet measures, if I can correctly recall, approximately 0.018" to 0.021" over bore diameter. The bottom band measures, I believe, 0.496"-0.497". The center two bands are in between these two extremes, but not evenly spaced apart.

Without sizing them to be the same diameter across all four bands, paper patching would be difficult to achieve. Like mooman76 said, there are easier ways to paper patch than a R.E.A.L. bullet.

 

[dragnetbill]

The more I get into this hobby the deep the rabbit hole goes! So last week-end I learn all about Lee REAL bullets, now my question is; can use a paper patch on them or just lube them? If you can paper patch them, what are the benefits compared to the downside? Maybe, I am not fully understanding the concept of paper patching, so please feel free to educated me! Thanks

Speaking strickly to using a REAL or similar style bullet for a field or hunting load you should determine if the bullet can easily move off of the powder charge during the normal carry and jostling of a rifle as you hunt (I'm assuming that you already know that you shouldn't fire a muzzle loader unless the projectile is seated against the powder). If you find that your bullet of choice can move off of your powder merely while carrying the rifle muzzle down or from light tapping against objects as you stalk about you could try paper to tighten the load; if that stops the bullet movement and doesn't cause a problem with your accuracy you have a solution.
I have not tried REAL bullets, but, I did have a T/C that I used Maxi bullets in for hunting. Maxis work on the same principle as the REAL; in my gun the lubed Maxi could work off of the powder with the muzzle down as i walked about. I cut strips of parchment paper just under the width of caliber and used two pieces set in a cross configuration between the bullet and the rifling and that stopped the bullet creep and the accuracy didn't change. Oh, still use the lube; it will grab onto your paper and keep it in place as you load.

 

[Grenadier1758]

So it is trial and error? There is no set formula?

Load development is basically trial and error. We can take some of the error out by starting with a knowledge of our rifle. What is the land to land diameter of the barrel? What is the groove to groove diameter of the barrel?

The Lee 50 caliber 250 grain mold casts a bullet with the largest band at 0.517" in diameter. The 45 caliber 250 grain bullet is 0.457" in diameter. If your barrel has a groove diameter close to the maximum diameter of the REAL bullet, there is no need to paper patch as the lead of the largest bands will be displaced by the lands or "engraved" during the loading process. The force of ignition will expand the bullet the rest of the way into the grooves and the lubrication in the grooves will minimize leading and keeping fouling soft.

If your barrel is larger in diameter than the largest diameter of the REAL bullet then paper patching should be considered. To properly paper patch, the bullet should be resized to have a diameter slightly less than the land to land diameter. There are several good threads on the forum on paper patching.

Basically, a REAL bullet should be lubricated with a decent bullet lubricant and no patching is necessary.

Then on to the trials to establish an accurate load and determine performance and trajectory at various ranges.

 

[11Bravo]

Back when I was hunting with the flint .50 I, like the poster, had mostly 40 yard or less shots at white tail. I used a PRB but I carried a fast second shot with a maxi and only had to use that method once. Yes the maxi load was more, as at the range it always was a 50 yard zeroing of both to match the point of strike by adding to the maxi load. I never wrote down the charges and sure can't remember at my age.

 

[tenngun]

So it is trial and error? There is no set formula?

No.
I think there are several perfect, or best combos, and you just have to fine the right one
Two guns from the same maker may shoot two very different combos
Bob might get his best with 70 grains 3f Tom uses 100 grains 2f
Pat likes Swiss better then GO, Bill does better with Shutzen.
All shoot as tight of groups they can hold.

 

[Archer 756]

There is no set formula for shooting ANY PRB or Real

 

[Woody Morgan]

REALs don't need patching. Just...don't.
The powder type and charge will dictate accuracy.

wm

 

[Snydly]

R.E.A.L Stands for rifling engaged at loading. This dictates that no patch be used.... otherwise the rifling would not be engaged at loading.

 

[Zonie]

The more I get into this hobby the deep the rabbit hole goes! So last week-end I learn all about Lee REAL bullets, now my question is; can use a paper patch on them or just lube them? If you can paper patch them, what are the benefits compared to the downside? Maybe, I am not fully understanding the concept of paper patching, so please feel free to educated me! Thanks

My answer to paper patching a REAL bullet is, no, you cannot paper patch them. Well.... read on to see my reasoning.

REAL bullets are oversize with the lands meant to be cut away or engraved by the rifling as they are forced into the bore. Doing this if a paper patch is wrapped around the bullet will cut the paper to shreads. Shredded paper won't grab the rifling grooves. Being shredded, the paper will not do much if anything to stop leading either.

Of course if you did paper patch the REAL bullet, the engraved grooves in the lead would grab the grooves so the bullet would shoot very much like it would have shot if there wasn't any paper patch wrapped around it.

Bottom line? Don't bother trying to paper patch the bullet. IMO, there's nothing to gain.

 

[Gregory Mitchell]

I've had some very nice results with the .50 cal REAL bullets from both of my Pedersoli Hawkens (Rocky Mountain and Traditional). I dip-lube them in SPG up to the top band and that's how they are fired with NO patching. And yes, they need a healthier powder charge than PRB -- whereas I typically use 50 gns. 2F (Triple Seven) behind my .50 cal PRBs, I bump up to 70 or 80 gns. for the REAL bullets. With 70+ gns of Triple 7 pushing a 250-gn bullet, you know you're SHOOTING something! Recoil is noticeable but not bad. These chrono at around 1500+ FPS from my RMH, with its longer barrel.

Finally -- do NOT size the REAL bullets. That would entirely defeat the purpose. They are "sized" by loading them in your barrel at which time they engrave on the rifling.