What do california shooters use with lead being outlawed for projectiles? I know there are copper bullets but what do you shoot in a 1:60 Twist muzzleloader?
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California shooters?
- Thread starter Coalforge
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ITX
Go at least 54 cal for big game. They may load hard in your rifle or even stick in the bore. You can not pull them with a ball screw.
I would not hunt during the dry season with a patch ball rifle. That would include central CA deer season. IT is tinder box here, starting a fire would be a life changing tragedy.
Go at least 54 cal for big game. They may load hard in your rifle or even stick in the bore. You can not pull them with a ball screw.
I would not hunt during the dry season with a patch ball rifle. That would include central CA deer season. IT is tinder box here, starting a fire would be a life changing tragedy.
I'm not in California. I was just wondering what could be used besides soft lead.
Right now in Calif you can target shoot all you want with lead ammo. But beginning this year ALL HUNTING is ban with lead ammo. Now for the boys who shoot those guns we don't talk about here not a problem, the big ammo company's are making non lead ammo. For us I really have no idea yet. Theres talk about iron, ball bearings , copper, but to me they seem to light. Beside how am I going to melt iron and pour into a mold. But at least we are saving the Condors, of course I have never seen a wild one, just in zoos.
AZbpBurner
54 Cal.
With proper patch thickness, you can use anything: marbles, ball bearings, copper, or any of the spendy alternate lead replacements.
I was born & raised in So Cal back when it was THE place to grow up with all kinds of outdoor opportunities. Today, it would be a cold day in He!! before I'd consider returning.
I was born & raised in So Cal back when it was THE place to grow up with all kinds of outdoor opportunities. Today, it would be a cold day in He!! before I'd consider returning.
arcticap
54 Cal.
California hunters can use non-toxic ITX balls from Ballistics Products.--->>> https://www.ballisticproducts.com/ITX-54-cal-non-toxic-roundball-10-balls/productinfo/TXRB54/
Maybe they will work better in barrels that are bored for a custom fit, even if they're smoothbores.
Back in the early days of deer seasons in Massachusetts, only smoothbores were legal so TC developed the .56 smooth bore Renegade.
If folks can kill animals with archery then ITX should be capable of at least matching archery performance distances.
As far as I know, during phase 2 some CA private land hunting outside of the condor zone is exempt from the lead free requirement as is some bird hunting with lead shot on state land.
Gold works!
Why would anyone want to hunt in such a screwed up state?
Any condor that gets between you and your deer/bird/bear should be shot anyway.
Why would anyone want to hunt in such a screwed up state?
Any condor that gets between you and your deer/bird/bear should be shot anyway.
[QUOTE="
far as I know, during phase 2 some CA private land hunting outside of the condor zone is exempt from the lead free requirement as is some bird hunting with lead shot on state land.[/QUOTE]
The only place you can use lead ammo is on private game clubs. Can't even shoot ground squirrels with lead 22's.
far as I know, during phase 2 some CA private land hunting outside of the condor zone is exempt from the lead free requirement as is some bird hunting with lead shot on state land.[/QUOTE]
The only place you can use lead ammo is on private game clubs. Can't even shoot ground squirrels with lead 22's.
arcticap
54 Cal.
Thanks. You may be correct about lead shot.
However I can reference this chart which indicates that [perhaps mistakenly] some hunting with non-shotgun lead bullets seems to be allowed outside the condor range until 7/1/19.
See the green portion of the chart, such as for big game on the right side .--->>> http://michellawyers.com/wp-content...-Implementation-Lead-Ban-Compliance-Table.pdf
The chart above was linked to a Phase 2 reminder notice from the NRA dated August, 2018:--->>> https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...d-ammunition-requirements-currently-in-effect
The chart and reminder notice did not give the definitive date that the end of lead shotgun hunting had already passed and the NRA reminder was issued over 2 years after the lead shot ban would have already gone into effect.
If the referenced information is incorrect then it wouldn't be the first time that the NRA or its lawyers made a mistake.
I apologize for any misunderstanding that may be caused if the chart is incorrect.
This notice is from the CA DFW.
Absent is any mention about the legality of using lead [or not] for big game outside the condor area prior to July 1, 2019.--->>> https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/hunting/nonlead-ammunition
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Yes, this hunting season beginning in June 2019 taking of any game or non game animal has to be done with non lead ammo expect private game ranches. Last year you could still hunt doves and quail with lead but not this year. I wonder how many doves Condors eat.
Yep - ITX. I've had good luck with Thor full-bore conicals in my Hawken with 1:48. I'm still working on getting a good roundball load that's powerful AND accurate.
I had read an article about ITX where somebody did some testing & found that although the ITX was a little lighter than lead, they were ballistically similar enough not to matter out to 100 yards. Penetration-wise, they did just as well since they're much harder & don't deform like lead. So it's supposed to be different but effectively interchangeable.
Rotometals has advertized a Bismuth alloy that should be able to be home-cast for lead-free projectiles. But I haven't yet read of any real-life testing -- neither in casting the alloy nor shooting it. If somebody wants to do some testing I'd be very interested in the results. Might just have to pick up casting my own. Casting lead seems a lot like reloading 9mm -- hardly worth the effort. But casting my own lead-free could pay for itself fairly quick.
I had read an article about ITX where somebody did some testing & found that although the ITX was a little lighter than lead, they were ballistically similar enough not to matter out to 100 yards. Penetration-wise, they did just as well since they're much harder & don't deform like lead. So it's supposed to be different but effectively interchangeable.
Rotometals has advertized a Bismuth alloy that should be able to be home-cast for lead-free projectiles. But I haven't yet read of any real-life testing -- neither in casting the alloy nor shooting it. If somebody wants to do some testing I'd be very interested in the results. Might just have to pick up casting my own. Casting lead seems a lot like reloading 9mm -- hardly worth the effort. But casting my own lead-free could pay for itself fairly quick.
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Not a good post, Sir.
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Dunno the details, but a bud got some of that while ordering some other stuff and tried casting pistol bullets with it just cuzz his pot and mold were hot. He sezz it worked fine, so I have to guess it would be fruitful grounds for round ball tests. The details I don't know are size out of the mold compared to other alloys or pure lead and casting temp.
"Twas me casting and hunting in CA, I'd carry a copy of the factory description and my invoice on hunts in case the question came up and be prepared to share a sample ball or two with the wardens for their own testing. Not exactly a novel concept, because I do the same when using a muzzleloading shotgun when duck hunting with ITX or bismuth shot. The wardens never took me up on my offer of samples, but they were much reassured by my paper and cooperation.
One thing to remember. Guys probably have no choice about living and hunting in California. Beating up on them here does them and us no good, and it's about as fair as slashing a guy's tires cuzz his rental car has the wrong license plates. Seen that happen, so it's not theoretical.
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Just a little addendum to post #7 -
Quote - The California condor has been protected as an endangered species by federal law since 1967 and by California state law since 1971. In the 1970s, biologists found that only a few dozen condors remained in the wild. In 1980, a major conservation project was started to try to keep the birds from becoming extinct.
Quote - The California condor has been protected as an endangered species by federal law since 1967 and by California state law since 1971. In the 1970s, biologists found that only a few dozen condors remained in the wild. In 1980, a major conservation project was started to try to keep the birds from becoming extinct.
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Yet they will sprinkle the hills with wind farms. Locally known as “condor Cuisinarts”...
I find that the more a state, government or kingdom ban things that humans have been content to do for hundreds of years with no real measure of harm being done it just creates more criminals as the ban encourages rebellion. Any unreasonable restriction will produce rebels and outlaws.
I understand peddling and consuming cocaine in California is also illegal but I bet it still happens!
To incriminate an old boy with his traditional long rifle or scattergun akin to a drug dealer is stupid and with only induce resentment and state sponsored poaching.
I would use lead. They would have to prove it first! Why do stupid people make the rules for the intelligent?
I understand peddling and consuming cocaine in California is also illegal but I bet it still happens!
To incriminate an old boy with his traditional long rifle or scattergun akin to a drug dealer is stupid and with only induce resentment and state sponsored poaching.
I would use lead. They would have to prove it first! Why do stupid people make the rules for the intelligent?
The deformation of lead, along with the expansion is what makes lead balls effective. Expansion is an important element.
+1.
Even for target shooting on relatively open land I am careful about the fire risk here in California. I know this is off-topic as the thread is about alternatives to lead in CA, but for target shooting I take a fire extinguisher with me just in case, and when done, I do a careful walk along and to the side of the line of fire in an effort to spot any smoking patches or wads. Thank goodness for the rain we have had this winter.
I have started to experiment with bismuth shot for my two smoothbores but am not yet ready to take them afield. Everything changes because of the lower mass (about 87% of lead but less if the percentage of tin is increased); ballistics and effective ranges are different.
Bismuth shatters easily and there are problems with it in a larger projectile. Nonetheless I will experiment when I get time - but for now it is ITX.
Check out this topic from a few years back by Roundball on using brass balls. https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/field-report-solid-brass-prb-in-58cal.81324/#post-1025954
condorsp
32 Cal.
Excuse me but, it's not the condor's fault. Blame it on the gun grabbing liberal,
progressive, communist, nut cases... Just sayin'
