Buying A Flintlock?

[Whittlin Tom]

I won't be purchasing anything over here. I am not too interested in the junk produced here -even for a wall ornament. This is an interesting article from an old gun magazine from the 60s on point -Guns from Afghanistan: The Gunsmiths of Darra http://www.armscollectors.com/darra/darra.htm


I would rather save my pennies for a real flintlock. Anybody ever use a pedersoli frontier deluxe? They run at $1300, which may be a little high from what I am reading. It looks like it is just a dressed up version of the $688 Cabela's blue ridge. Its mighty purty, but at $1300, I am starting to suspect I can get something simliar but custom made for around the cost.

Any thoughts or advice?

 

[Maestro]

Welcome to the forum, Tom! :hatsoff:
Yes, the Cabela's guns are the same as some of the Pedersoli models. (A rose by any other name...) They're made well and from what I've heard, they're good shooters... they're a little lacking in historical accuracy, though. So... be patient, put some thought into what you really want, and do your research. I haven't checked prices in the past year or two but I think that for $1300 you can at least get yourself a "semi"-custom gun.

Thank you for your service to our country! :bow:

 

[Lt Frank]

Tom.....For $1300 dollars, you can buy a nice custom gun, made by a reputable and reliable maker. This would be a gun that you can be proud of, a real shooter and it will never go down in price. I am not a fan of the Traditions, Cabelas, Thompson Centers or any other mass produced guns and never will be. A custom built gun is an investment and if you take care of it, it will never go down in price. What style gun are you looking for ? ...Frank

 

[Ketchakah]

I would agree with Frank,
The Blue ridge guns do shoot well, But they are not historically correct at all. They are muzzle heavy, The butt is too small. There are alot of differences.

For 1300.00 you can get a custom gun with high grade parts from a number of sources. And If you should sell it... Probably get what you paid at least. Used production guns go for 3 to 500.00

 

[Whittlin Tom]

I think I would like an early Virginia or early Lancaster -both look like beautiful guns and just seem to have a strong appeal to me. Plus, it seems like both could work if I ever want to get into RevWar reenacting or buckskinning.

I have to say, this rifles that Der Musiker posted on the flintlock page is just beautiful and really caught my attention.

http://www.cherrytreefamily.com/dickertrifle.htm

Maybe I could have a maker price me out something that looks similiar. I would want a more traditional double set trigger, and the carving is more than I would opt for on a rifle I was having custom made, but the stock, barrel, stain, lock, patchbox and furniture really appeal to me. I would love to have something similiar.

Do you think there is anybody out there who could make something like that for around my price range of $1300?

 

[Darkgael]

Whit: Check Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading at http://www.avsia.com/tvm/.
You'll find the twin to that rifle - an Early Lancaster. Within your budget for sure.

Pete

 

[Mike Brooks]

Do you think there is anybody out there who could make something like that for around my price range of $1300?

Not of that quality.

 

[Coot]

$1300 is an awful lot to pay for a factory gun. For that kind of money, you should be able to find a nice used semi-custom or used custom gun from a less well known builder. Since you will not be in the market for a while, I suggest that you watch the Track of the Wolf website for their listings on new & used guns of the style & period that appeal to you. Track's listings will give you a feel for some of what is out there in both quality and price. If lucky, you can do a bit better than Track's prices at a private sale as they sell on consignment with a good markup.

 

[Whittlin Tom]

I have heard so many good things about TVM and the quality and affordability of their rifles; they seem to be a great value. Unfortunately, the pictures on their website are so small its hard to tell the differences between the Virgina, Early Lancaster, and Late Lancaster.

Can anybody break down the basic differences and possible pros or cons of each style? I am looking for a rifle you could have seen during the RevWar, that is a tac driver for target shooting, good for hunting, and looks nice over the mantle.

 

[Maestro]

Can anybody break down the basic differences and possible pros or cons of each style? I am looking for a rifle you could have seen during the RevWar, that is a tac driver for target shooting, good for hunting, and looks nice over the mantle.

Tom, this is really hard to do in a "nutshell"... entire volumes are written on the different "schools". In fact, you should go to your library and look for those volumes! I'm fortunate to have a lot of them in my local library. I particularly like "Rifles of Colonial America", known affectionately as RCA vols. 1 & 2.

For a 3rd qtr. 18th c. rifle gun, you're looking at what might be considered a "transitional" style. The "Christian's Spring" school is a definite... an "early Lancaster" might also fit the bill. These earlier guns were a "transition" between the stocky German Jaeger rifles and, by merging that technology with the long-barreled English fowlers, the "long rifle" was developed.

As far as a "tack driver", just make sure you get a gun with a reputable barrel (Getz & Rice are two)... the real responsibility is yours, between working up a load and shooting it... a lot!

Do your research well before you dish out the cash and make sure you get what you really want - you'll be much happier in the long run. Except for your "tack driver" criteria... I wouldn't rule out a smooth rifle or a fowler!

 

[tg]

You can get a good gun for 1300 bucks it will not likely have any carving nor except for maybe the basic moudings, if looking for an Early gun of any kind from any supplier determine what early "is" and query the vendor as to what qualifys their gun as early if the PC/HC thing is or may ever be an issue,There are some other makers that have got some good reviews who are not as well know, Stroh, Christian are some names around here that come to mind, a private builder will be the best way to go if the dollars work out.

 

[wayne1967]

I saw some really good buys at the last trade fair I went to over the weekend. That is if you don't mind getting a good used gun. Spring and alot of events are coming up.

 

[hanshi]

For $1300 you can get a fine but plain gun from many of the makers mentioned including TVM. Adding patchbox, inlays, upgrades of wood, a particular lock of your choice will bring the price up, of course. But even with a rather plain, basic rifle you will be getting quality way beyond any Cabelas or Lyman gun. As you mention the pictures don't really show you much but you can get a better idea from the signature pictures.

I strongly disagree with Mike Brooks concerning quality. Quality (to me) means fine workmanship, good materials, built to your lop and other measurements and fine performance. If quality is referring to deluxe, figured wood, all those extras I mentioned and fine detailed engraving & carving then no, you'll have to spend more, obviously.

We sometimes tend to get snobbish not just about OTC production guns, but also about various makers and the cost of the gun. A $5000 rifle might be prettier and fancier than a $1300 gun but not necessarily of better "quality". I find this attitude to be, well, should I say "a bit tacky"?

Some guns were meant to be plain; take the SMR, for instance. I have one from TVM that's as plain as a country supper. High quality, though, and true to form. Yes, put that $1300 on a hand built rifle and plain or no, you'll never regret it.

PS. I will mention that Mr. Brooks, himself, can build you a rifle of high quality and one you'd be satisfied with. As for price I have no idea what would be agreed upon.

 

[tg]

"Some guns were meant to be plain; take the SMR, for instance. I have one from TVM that's as plain as a country supper. High quality, though, and true to form."


I am guessing that that true to form gun has a Siler lock?, but that does not matter for being true to form does it? I always try to avoid getting envolved in topics that are beyond my experience I think this is a good personal policy.

" you see. I rather think what I along with others don't appreciate is someone telling us our guns don't have good workmanship, are clunky, don't have the correct lock, etc. That has nothing to do with being pc;"

The above reflects a certain degree of knowledge and experience, and excellant example of where my policy could have served well.

 

[fitter]

Mike is right. Your not going to get much of a gun for $1300. Quality parts alone cost almost $700.

 

[hanshi]

Forgive my lack of clarity. I intended the true to form statement to refer to the fact of the gun being plain, not pc. Although pc/hc is quite irrelevant to me I have never been knowledgeable on the subject. In fact I can thank the forums for educating me to a small extent on the subject.

Even though I've now been made aware of lock/style/period/etc. matters, they remain only one of many factors I consider when planning a gun. I don't reinact so I simply demand a gun that is reliable and very well made. I do have one that is pc but that is just by chance and neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned. I hope this clears the confusion my last post may have caused.

 

[hanshi]

Well, I did, and more than once. Nice to know we have omnipotent declarations to guide us. I've seen $5000 junk and $1000 jewels. Sometimes you just gotta look outside your neighborhood.

 

[Darkgael]

"Your not going to get much of a gun for $1300"
As in many things, what "much gun" means is relative.
Don't get me wrong. I have the greatest respect for talented craftsmen like Mr. Brooks. One of these days I'm going to ask him to build me a Fowler at about seven pounds or so. I expect to pay for that.
Here's the but....but to imply that one has to spend in the mid teens for a useful, handsome, reliable flintlock is plain silly.
The aforementioned TVM produces a very nice Poor Boy Fowler (among other firearms) - pretty wood, reliable, accurate. What else is needed? It's the kind of gun that people ask about and say "that's a nice lookin'gun. Where'd ya get that?"

Pete

 

[Mike Brooks]

I strongly disagree with Mike Brooks concerning quality. Quality (to me) means fine workmanship, good materials, built to your lop and other measurements and fine performance. If quality is referring to deluxe, figured wood, all those extras I mentioned and fine detailed engraving & carving then no, you'll have to spend more, obviously.

Oh Boy..... :shake: Quality means starting with top of the line parts and a good hard piece of wood. The rest is excellent tight inletting mechanical function and most importantly good architecture. Good architecture is where most $1300 guns fall flat.
High quality has nothing to do with decoration. If the gun is decorated the decoration must be well executed. Chubby guns with poor architecture, less than top quality parts and sloppy inletting aren't a deal at any price. But the great thing about less expensive chubby guns is there are alot of places to buy them with little to no wait. :thumbsup:

PS. I will mention that Mr. Brooks, himself, can build you a rifle of high quality and one you'd be satisfied with. As for price I have no idea what would be agreed upon.

Prices aren't agreed on, I set them. You either pay my price or find someone else to build. There is no negotiation. There are guys out there that do good work that work for less than I do, in fact I recommend them to those who find my prices to high.

 

[Dphar]

I won't be purchasing anything over here. I am not too interested in the junk produced here -even for a wall ornament. This is an interesting article from an old gun magazine from the 60s on point -Guns from Afghanistan: The Gunsmiths of Darra http://www.armscollectors.com/darra/darra.htm


I would rather save my pennies for a real flintlock. Anybody ever use a pedersoli frontier deluxe? They run at $1300, which may be a little high from what I am reading. It looks like it is just a dressed up version of the $688 Cabela's blue ridge. Its mighty purty, but at $1300, I am starting to suspect I can get something simliar but custom made for around the cost.

Any thoughts or advice?

Keep an eye on the Track of The Wolf site's guns for sale.

Dan