Breeching a set of double barrels

[Supercracker]

Ok guys. Have a question and/or issue.

I am in the process of plugging a set of 14ga barrels I got and when I got down to actually installing the plugs it appears as though the tap did'nt align itself properly in the chamber and went in at a bit of an angle and I did'nt notice it at the time.

This is making the plug face not line up with the back of the barrels. The left side seals fairly well but the right side leaves a gap. If I file the barrels to make the plugs line up the front of the plugs will look wonky.

It's not the end of the world if I can't finish it with these as they were a nice but less than spectacular set of barrels that I got for very very cheap. I had planned to build a somewhat plain gun using these first as a kind of exercise before I tried to build a much more fancy gun using my really really nice barrels.

Worst case, I'll separate them and have 2 really cool ~30" .62 cal smoothy barrels for an english gamekeeper type gun.

Any suggestions?

 

[upperplains]

Could you set the barrel in question up again to re-introduce the tap and just lean on the tap in the direction you want it to go? It's not a small tap so you probably would'nt be breaking it and I bet that just a little tweaking will get you a lot regarding fitment.

Bruce

 

[Supercracker]

tried that. it's a small misalignment. Not enough to get it to skip over the other threads.


I'll be making some kind of jig or bracket to hold and guide the tap for the next set.

 

[Supercracker]

I wonder if I could drill a hole (on the lathe) in the end of the tap to use a brass guide bushing down the bore?

 

[ohio ramrod]

You would need a solid carbide drill to drill a tap. It can be done but it is not an easy job as taps are VERY HARD.We used "piloted taps" extensively in the hydraulic valve manufactoring where I used to work as a tool grinder and we ground our pilots onto the taps rather than trying to drill the taps for a pilot like a spot facer.

 

[Supercracker]

yeah. I know that'd be like drilling hole in a diamond. lol Having a slow day waiting on trucks and thinking out loud more than anything.

Right now, my sketch is a jig to clamp the barrels down to and shim the muzzle up so the bore is parralel. Then an aluminum/nylon cradle for the tap clamps in place ahead of the breech end holding it in place to get started. This cradle could be aligned by means of a bore diameter aluminum rod ran into the bore and the cradle. It seems complex but I can make it pretty much out of scrap.

 

[Supercracker]

............I could also separate the tubes, true them on the lathe and turn the misaligned threads out then make a larger breech plug that is a better fit.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

............I could also separate the tubes, true them on the lathe and turn the misaligned threads out then make a larger breech plug that is a better fit.

Thats the ticket, or if there is enough material just shorten the barrels accordingly.

 

[TARL01]

+1 to Aprentice Builder. I think those suggestions are the way to go.
Woody

 

[Supercracker]

That's a no go.

Being hand filed "round" from a larger damascus blank the chamber section (the only part thick enough to clamp in the lathe) is not only tapered but is also not round in any part. So there's no way to secure it in the chuck. Did'nt think of that til I looked at them again tonight.

So......2 30" .69cal smoothie barrels it is! I'll get started with the other barrel set this weekend.

 

[TARL01]

Best of luck and please let us know how it turns out.
Woody

 

[Supercracker]

Yeah, I'm going to separate them today at lunch. I'll take pics.


I won't have everything I need to get going on the other set of barrels til Monday. So Maybe I'll try to get these two breeched over the weekend. Once I get them both breeched and proofed maybe I can trade one for a lock and blank to make a short game gun out of the other.

 

[jerrywh]

When you separate those barrels you will find that they are not round. They will be very thin on one side where they were joined. You best find a tap with a pilot on it. The pilot must extend past the forcing cone in the chambers or it will not run true. Are the barrels Belgian or otherwise?? If they are Belgian they will be brazed together. Unbrazing them will warp them badly. You need to cut them off enough to get a fresh start. Think safety

 

[Supercracker]

they were brazed Belgian. They were W Richards actually. lol

they came apart fairly easily. I made a heat shield with fire bricks and took time to spread heat evenly over the area and slightly beyond and bring it up slowly. They didn't warp at all that I can tell or measure and I don't think I got them hot enough to change the metal.

The one with the skewed threads I'm gonna thin out and split so I can use the metal to make damascus RR pipes.

 

[jerrywh]

W Richards is an English outfit. Did you have to get them red hot to undo them???

 

[Supercracker]

W Richards was the Belgian fake Westley Richards. It has Belgian proofs.

They were just barely before or a very dull faint red before the braze let go.

 

[jerrywh]

you might very well be the first person to ever heat a barrel with a torch to a red heat without warping it. Amazing. :thumbsup:

 

[Supercracker]

HAHAHAHA. The brazing let go just slightly before red. I was very concerned about overheating the barrels.

I put about 3" sections of roughly 3/4" 1018 rod stock in the chambers before I started the process. My theory was that these would soak up and hold heat and help distribute it more evenly around the tubes. I think this helped me avoid getting huge temp differences on the tube walls. Then I used firebricks and kawool to make a 5 sided oven open on top and put the flame in from the top and rotated the barrels the whole time heat was being applied. I had a wooden wedge between the barrels at about half length providing a slight constant separating pressure. As soon as it hit the temp to soften the braze they popped apart. The "oven" and filler rods helped it cool much more gradually than it would have otherwise. If I can find a piece of 6" tubing I think I'll make a real brazing oven to use next time.

Post separation they are a little not straight, however, they were a little not straight beforehand too. I mean a tiny bit. It's hard to quantify because, as you know, even brand new there are no flat surface to measure from on the outside.

It's certainly nothing that couldn't be straightened fairly easily. I'm more concerned about the metal than straightness.

 

[jerrywh]

Well it sounds like you have the right theory working for you. Even overall heat and slow even cooling is the trick. But to be perfectly done requires the use of a furnace. I have a 44" electric furnace with a pyrometer every 6". Even then They will have minimum warpage. To be honest most of the Belgian shotgun barrels were not perfectly straight anyway and they never required them to be so. They figured the last four or five inches was the most important. The barrels were joined in a charcoal baffle furnace and then planed straight on the outside. The barrel walls were never of even thickness on one side or the other. I have had dozens of them. I have a barrel straightening device like they had in the early 1900's in Liege. Don't follow me. I'm a fanatic. It's a curse. http://jwh-flintlocks.net/breach-supreme-noname.jpg

 

[Supercracker]

:shocked2: :shocked2: HOLY manure! :shocked2: :shocked2:

You sir, ROCK! Do you have any pics of the finished gun you could share?

Also, I think it's too late. I can feel myself start to get all OCD about building these guns the same way I used to about engineering and working on race bikes. I'm having a BALL figuring out the best ways to deal with this barrel set.