BP vs Black MZ

[torpedo]

Just a heads up on Alliance Black MZ, it is to be discontinued. I know all the purist could care less but I find the stuff excellent for shooting and cleaning. I like real BP too but the cost and availability sucks and it's much dirtier to clean. I shoot way too much if that is possible, so need to keep the cost down. Average 4 days a week, would be more but don't go on the weekends, too many people out there shooting all kinds of modern guns. Its a popular spot just across the valley in the foothills. Real nice not to have to go to a shooting range though. Anyway to all that use MZ, its gone.

 

[azmntman]

Too bad, I felt it the best of the subs. I looked for some a few weeks back and out of stock

 

[coloradoclyde]

HALLELUJAH ! My prayers have been answered....

Perhaps the plague of fake powders and fake muzzleloaders is coming to an end.

Now, hopefully Alliant will think about producing the real stuff so we can have some competitiveness in the market place...

 

[Col. Batguano]

In all honesty, I've never really understood the attraction of the substitute powders other than they aren't considered an explosive by the BATFE. I suppose there is a bit more safety with them, in that they are more stable and harder to light, but they are more expensive, and cleaning needs to be done the same as with real BP.

 

[azmntman]

Attraction is 98% AVAILABILITY. Don't know many folks that would choose any subs over real black if available. 145 miles one way for me to get to real black and of course 80% of us dont wanna by in bulk. I'd love to but its a $$$ thing :surrender: :idunno:

 

[Okie Hog]

i've used Black MZ powder since it became available. Its a great powder. Gun bore cleans up easily with tap water and a few patches.

Shot a lot of targets, killed about 40 deer and scores of wild hogs using Black MZ.

 

[torpedo]

Actually a lb of MZ cost 9.99 at sportsmans wharehouse, and I didn't have to buy 25 lbs and pay a hazardous fee. If they start selling real BP over the counter like in the good old days, I will be very happy to buy it then.

 

[dlidster]

I've been pleased with Black MZ. The one down side is that the granules don't want to pour smoothly. But, because it's so clean and cleans up so easily, I can live with that.

What I haven't been able to understand is how Alliant and Sportsman's Warehouse have been able to sell it for $9.95. I assume they're both in business to make money. If the most recent rumor is true I'll stock up on a few more pounds today. I can buy three pounds for what I pay for one pound of T7 (which I'm also quite happy with).

 

[torpedo]

I actually went down and stocked up too. 8 lbs with veterans discount 80 bucks, not bad.

 

[Crewdawg445]

HALLELUJAH ! My prayers have been answered....

Perhaps the plague of fake powders and fake muzzleloaders is coming to an end.

One can only dream... Us "purist" will just have to press on in a world of powder gone mad!

This should be in the accessories section though, just a friendly heads up, I'll likely get rash response for pointing it out.

 

[torpedo]

That's exactly what keeps people from entering out beloved sport. Being ridiculed for not shooting the right powder, patch, lube, or riffle! Just saying.

 

[coloradoclyde]

No one was "ridiculing" anyone....

You can't prevent someone from entering the sport of traditional muzzleloading or reenacting by criticizing fake powders. That's just steering them in the right direction.... :haha:

 

[Crewdawg445]

That's exactly what keeps people from entering out beloved sport. Being ridiculed for not shooting the right powder, patch, lube, or riffle! Just saying.

Here we go again... :shake:

Nothing traditional about modern powder substitutes, just saying. Tired of seeing 90% of the untraditional content on this forum anymore. I pay to get scolded by others for being a purist, thread nazi and the like... I take it as a compliment, however think the new owner should change the name of this fourm for heavenly sake because the tradition is half dead. :surrender:

 

[Redstick Lee]

it's simply that people get so tired of hearing and seeing "that's not right, that's all wrong, that's not even close, you should try for perfection"......then the next breath is......" why are newcomers shying away from the traditional forms?"

can't see the forest for the trees we have planted

 

[Crewdawg445]

it's simply that people get so tired of hearing and seeing "that's not right, that's all wrong, that's not even close, you should try for perfection"......then the next breath is......" why are newcomers shying away from the traditional forms?"

can't see the forest for the trees we have planted

Also the fact the same jazz is continually repeated to no end... We owe it to others to again "keep the tradition alive", nothing traditional about a powder created in 1970. If that means I'm labeled a purist or thread nazi, so be it. I sleep well at night knowing I do what I can to keep my lifestyle alive. Personally have helped many start their adventures in the BP world, not from a website but doing it right the best I can from event's, hunts, curiosity and so on. Not a one from this forum. I certainly have not all the answers, however if I don't know I seek advice or instructions from someone who does. I certainly don't make it up and let it slide as correct or traditional. Enough off topic bull as this will all go nowhere fast.
http://footguards.tripod.com/06ARTICLES/ART28_blackpowder.htm

For anyone interested in learning all about powders.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

That's exactly what keeps people from entering out beloved sport. Being ridiculed for not shooting the right powder, patch, lube, or riffle! Just saying.

Really...., :hmm:

Gee I thought it was the low cost copies of modern rifles that are re-engineered to infringe on "primitive" or "muzzle loader" or "black powder" hunting seasons by conforming to legal definitions, instead of the intent of the laws when first written, that keeps folks from trying traditional muzzleloaders....


..., That, AND the propaganda from companies that make such rifles, as well as ignorant breech loader shooters, who tell folks the round ball can't possibly work.

:idunno:

LD

 

[Crewdawg445]

That's exactly what keeps people from entering out beloved sport. Being ridiculed for not shooting the right powder, patch, lube, or riffle! Just saying.

Really...., :hmm:

Gee I thought it was the low cost copies of modern rifles that are re-engineered to infringe on "primitive" or "muzzle loader" or "black powder" hunting seasons by conforming to legal definitions, instead of the intent of the laws when first written, that keeps folks from trying traditional muzzleloaders....


..., That, AND the propaganda from companies that make such rifles, as well as ignorant breech loader shooters, who tell folks the round ball can't possibly work.

:idunno:

LD

Dead right LD, well said. :applause:

 

[azmntman]

:hmm: What about barrels that were iron in the day and steel nowadays?

I'm on the other side of the fence, half stadling maybe, from my wal-mart plastic possibles bag to my felt wads over my (sometimes subsitute BP). I'm still "pretending" to do it like great great great grampa holding off the injuns n yankees's from the farm :surrender:

You can still bring yer perfect gear into my camp and drink a beer (outta my aluminum cans) with me though :grin:

Seriously, do your caps have the same kinda filament? Did yer powder arrive at the trading post in a wagon pulled by livestock? Is the water you clean with crick water or does it have fluoride n chlorine? You arrive at yer P/C gathering on a horse or a Chevrolet? Yer balls cast with P/C molds or aluminum? Yer patch material come from a factory or did yer wife weave it in between chewing the fat from yer bufferlo robe?

See? Like TD Jakes always said (no i'm not a fan, but he is ammusing :haha: ) how much P/C (church) you'all wanna have?

Subs are granular, black (or dark), need measurd for a charge, fit in yer horn (some plastic out there), smoke when fired and gotta be cleaned up just like Goex. (we argue bout pellets later, still thinkin, I don't ever use em).

If ya show up in camp and dont wanna be seen witha can in yer hand just whip out yer tin cup and pour it in, we'll talk about game, trackin, injuns, redcoats, yankees and all that while I relax in my lawn chair and you sit on a stump!

I'd guess I'm trying to say NONE of ya are 100% P/C and many of us stopped trying to compete to get the closest when we got chaff real real bad after 60 miles on the horse headed to Friendship or what have ya.

I'm not a reenact-or by any means but I AM A MUZZLELAODER ENTHUSIAST (freak per wife n kids). Come on over! the fires warm and the marshmallows on the coat hangers are tasting mighty good

 

[Black Hand]

"If we can't be 100%, then we shouldn't even try..."

Maybe that works for you, but not for me. I will continue to work my way to doing it the period way as much as possible. I may never be able to achieve my goal, but it doesn't mean I will stop or quit encouraging others to do the same. You get out of this hobby what you put in, and I have never been one to devote 10% effort when I can devote 100%...

BTW, nice strawman about the steel vs. iron barrels.

 

[coloradoclyde]

That's exactly what keeps people from entering out beloved sport. Being ridiculed for not shooting the right powder, patch, lube, or riffle! Just saying.

Really...., :hmm:

Gee I thought it was the low cost copies of modern rifles that are re-engineered to infringe on "primitive" or "muzzle loader" or "black powder" hunting seasons by conforming to legal definitions, instead of the intent of the laws when first written, that keeps folks from trying traditional muzzleloaders....


..., That, AND the propaganda from companies that make such rifles, as well as ignorant breech loader shooters, who tell folks the round ball can't possibly work.

:idunno:

LD

Well said..... :hatsoff: and 100% correct.
That's what really kills the sport of muzzleloading, Modern Mls. Because newbies who buy them and shoot them don't get a true representation of what muzzleloaders are...It's just a poor analog (same goes for fake powders), many quickly become bored with it's limitations and go back to shooting modern rifles. Traditional shooters using real black powder and interested in history on the other hand are usually hooked for life.




I'll jump track and examine Black MZ.

Black powder works in ALL muzzleloaders. Period!

Does Black MZ work in:

Handgones......Good luck

matchlocks.....No

wheel locks....No

Flintlocks.....No

percussion guns.... No/yes Hit and miss with varying results (example, it worked in my 50 cal but not in my shotgun.)

Cannons.....I wouldn't even think about it

Modern muzzleloader.....YES....That's what it was designed for.