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BP substitutes and chain fires

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Oh boy, let me tell you a story. I have a 1860 Colt replica, don't know the make. Shot it for like 20-30 years with black powder, never a chain fire. Got some 777 one day, shot her six times. Thought: "not bad stuff...gun sure is cleaner". Load up six more shots, first shot, she chain fires and blows the front sight and loading lever latch off the barrel. My answer would be....wait for it....NO. Gave the rest of the pound of 777 to my brother, along with all my pyrodex, and have never touched a substitute since.

My thought would be, even if they are harder to ignite, they probably burn hotter, (?) and so can chain fire just as easy...if not worse.
 
Been using Pyrodex P for years. Never had issues with revovers. Did have periodic hesitation ignition with RS in rifles. Switched to P in rifles and that stopped.
Most say chain fire cause is hot gas at the primers. Only remembrance of chain fire was when I didn't seal ball with grease. Might have been bad seal of primer. Hard to tell once it has happend. All I know is that when I decided to seal the ball it has not happened. I can see how a loose primer or an #11 pinched to fit snug leaving 2 areas on skirt not sealing could get gassed. A deformed primer skirt not good for revolver. On single shot it's a non issue.
 
It seems that a powder with a higher ignition temperature would be less likely to chainfire. Not more.
It would "seem". But I think it's six of one, half dozen of the other, if the powder burn hotter, then you have raised the temperature to that higher ignition temp. ?? Does that make sense? Kind of the "same difference" if you will? But again, my ONLY chain fire was with 777. To my mind, if something like 777 burns significantly hotter than black powder, that might make it more likely to chain fire, regardless of slight increase in ignition temp. ??
 
Not trying to answer for Bow, but the temp of the flash or flame that reaches the powder, somehow, however it does, be it past the ball, or somehow through the nipples, would contribute to it, I'm sure. The higher the temp of that flame or flash, the more likely would be a chain fire, so in a way "temperature is the cause of chain fires"...but that would be an over-simplication, or would be stating the obvious.

What I'm trying to say, and it's just a guess, is that if 777, just for an example, has a slightly higher ignition temp, but when ignited has a significantly higher burning temp, then the lower ignition temp would be exceeded, and it wouldn't matter (the ignition temp) that it was slightly higher than black powder.
 
So you are saying that temperature is the cause of chain fires ?
No. I’m saying that a higher ignition temperature requirement would make a powder less susceptible to chainfire. Rat makes a good point about the powder with a higher ignition temperature might also have a higher burning temperature so, 6 of one, half dozen of another....
 
Since BP substitutes are harder to ignite, might they contribute to chain fire prevention? Just a thought.

No matter what powder you use, almost all chain-fires are caused by flame jumping across the nipples.
Usually caused by a loose unfired cap being blasted off it's nipple by the firing of the adjacent chamber, or an oversized cap pinched down to fit that leaves a gap around the circumference of the nipple.
I have fired many thousands of shots from percussion revolvers with no grease over the balls, and have not had a chain fire since sometime around 1973.
I DO usually put greased felt wads that I make under the ball for lubrication, but that' the only reason.
Putting grease over the balls in the cylinder makes a humongous mess that is more trouble than any benefits are worth, but I suppose if it makes anyone feel more confident doing so, no harm done.
Just a bigger mess to deal with.

Sam Colt probably knew a lot about loading and shooting his revolvers, and his written instructions for loading and shooting made no mention of greasing the chamber mouths.
 
No matter what powder you use, almost all chain-fires are caused by flame jumping across the nipples.
Usually caused by a loose unfired cap being blasted off it's nipple by the firing of the adjacent chamber, or an oversized cap pinched down to fit that leaves a gap around the circumference of the nipple.
.

Finally, Something that makes sense.
 
Might they? Who cares! They SUCK as a propellant compared to real black! If you’re having chainfires, you’ve either loose caps or you’ve loose balls. There has to be a gap for that fire to get through. The problem ain’t the powder buddy!!

Yep I have to agree here. Only two places fire or heat can affect other chambers is through either the nipple or the chamber mouth.

Had an old 60 back in the early 70's that had outta round chambers and my dad abserved the chain fire and promptly made me sell it.

I have never had chain fires since. I have pinched caps, shot unlubed loads, lubed loads, loads with real black and loads with pyrocrap tripple 7 and blackhorn ... mostly black powder with no chain.

As for why of shooting grease OVER the ball ... that is by far the BEST accuracy I have ever had in every percussion revolver I have ever fired.

Also as for Mr. COLTS recommendation on loading his revolvers ... he did not invision going to the range and shooting many reloads like we do today. They carried those revolvers for emergency use and if they had time to reload ... they woulda loaded and used the more accurate rifle. Or threw the revolver down and grabbed another revolver from the belt and gave em heck till it ran dry ... no need for any lube there.

My paper cartridges get dipped in lube over the ball to provide lube the Army recommended way. This allows just a bit below the ball and a bit over the ball. Works very well for me.
 
Might they? Who cares! They SUCK as a propellant compared to real black! If you’re having chainfires, you’ve either loose caps or you’ve loose balls. There has to be a gap for that fire to get through. The problem ain’t the powder buddy!!


If a person is having chain fires, the person is doing something incorrectly, they are not your buddy and alternative powder does not suck. Some folks do not have access to black powder and shoot what they have the ability to obtain, they should not be belittled, they are enjoying the hobby.
 
It would "seem". But I think it's six of one, half dozen of the other, if the powder burn hotter, then you have raised the temperature to that higher ignition temp. ?? Does that make sense? Kind of the "same difference" if you will? But again, my ONLY chain fire was with 777. To my mind, if something like 777 burns significantly hotter than black powder, that might make it more likely to chain fire, regardless of slight increase in ignition temp. ??
A sample size of one does not a trend make. It could just as easily been a fluke; out-of-round ball, spilled powder, bad primer seal, etc.
 
if you are having chain fires, look to something else than the powder. it is a resolution that can be fixed, but not by a powder change. members here should have what you need.
 
I've read that Sam Colt was such a great showman that he would submerse a loaded revolver in water for a few minutes and then pluck it out and shoot it.
Very tight fitting balls and caps are required to do that.

However, that doesn't mean that the additional recoil of some powders or loads of 777 couldn't cause something to loosen up which otherwise wouldn't have and lead to a chain fire.
That may not all be due to the 777, but if someone loaded enough of it then that could be a contributing factor.
We all take our risks when firing any revolver with any type of powder.
All powders can have their advantages and disadvantages and folks make their choices accordingly.
Just try to always keep hands clear of the front of the cylinder and wear safety glasses.
 
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A sample size of one does not a trend make. It could just as easily been a fluke; out-of-round ball, spilled powder, bad primer seal, etc.
Yes, that crossed my mind also. Could have just happened to load an out of round ball, maybe didn't seat it well...which wouldn't really explain multiple chambers going off...but, whatever. That may be true, what you say. At any rate, I'll never use 777 again, even if it was a fluke. I don't want anymore flukes. !!!! :)
 
It is a common belief that 2 "chain fire" is because the mouth of the chamber is not sealed with grease. I cannot see HOW a flame could get past a ball which hermetically seals a chamber (assuming that when ramming it there is a "ring" of lead shaved off.
The reason for the grease is simple -- LUBRICATION --- which is why the bullets in moulds found in cased British revolvers have a lube groove.
I always use a "WonderWad" over the powder, which provides the necessary lubrication AND an additional safeguard --- without getting hands greasy, which can lead to misfires.
I have often fired 10 cylinders full from my Tranters (etc) without the cylinders binding.

Just ask Marty Murphy (NMLRA) for his opinion. The reasons for almost all flash overs in percussion revolvers are (a) badly fitting caps (b) loose cylinders -- too short for the frame -- and/or (c) overlong nipples ... so that when the cylinder sets back due to recoil the cap strikes the standing breech or (d) powder grains in the wrong place!

Look at the BBC video series "The Gun". DeWitt Bailey (a member of the same club as myself) told me that they had to fake a flashover with a "pepperbox" by lightly greasing the rear of the barrel cluster and then sprinkling it with powder.
It certainly cannot be blamed on particular types of powder.
 
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