Bore cleaners

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dave951

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Windex. Water, alcohol and ammonia. Water is a bipolar solvent and works on fouling from real black powder. Alcohol helps evaporation. Ammonia neutralizes the acid from anything you miss in clean up. Get the patches coming out clean and oil as normal. Can't get any easier.
 

Hawken

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There is no definitive answer.
Well what's the question again? After five (5) pages, maybe things need to be refocused. From way back yonder, to pg. 1 para. 1 :

Do any of the supposed bore cleaners on the market do anything more or better than hot water or hot soap and water?
 
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This same question also appears quite often on the sister website, and I just got done posting there, and I like to repost it here. This cleaning thing will never end, which is far better than politics anyway. It probably surprises some, that there's more than one way to clean anything, including muzzleloaders.

Like most people of my generation, I've always been a firm believer that cleanliness was almost next to godliness, especially with a rifle. Even when I hunted with a 22 single shot over 70 years ago, I cleaned it every time I went out, so I have also have done that, with any muzzleloader stuff. Then last September I bought a used Lyman 45 percussion that was last shot probably in the 1980s and never cleaned until I got it. I don't have one of those bore cameras, but after getting the crud out, and then shooting the rifle, and then cleaning it up again, from just looking down the barrel with a good strong light, it looks surprisingly good, and it shoots just fine. There must be some pits in the barrel. Doesn't seem to create any kind of problem, I cleaned the way I always have, warm water and enough number 13 or 17 cleaning patches until everything seemed clean. Sprayed it out with some alcohol, which I've just started this last year, and then coated the inside lightly with kerosene. A day or two later run a couple of damp patches down the barrel and then recoat it. It appears every gun I have is going to outlast me by many years, including this 45 caliber. Many of us are fuss buckets over the right and wrong way to clean, appears some of it is overrated.
Squint
 

Greenjoytj

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Warm water to dissolve and flush away any residual "salts".

Detergent (Dawn) in the water is the surfactant that when added to a water reduces its surface tension, thereby increasing its spreading and wetting properties.
Surfactants help the water penetrate the tiny tool marks in the bore steel to help lift and suspend fouling in the water so it can be flushed away.
Detergent also remove patch grease or oil. Try washing greasy hands with just water it won't work to remove grease.

Bronze brushing to mechanically loosen fouling so it can be flushed away.

M-Pro 7 Bore Cleaner a water based cleaner popular with smokeless powder cleaning that has carbon removal as its core function used as a final confirmation cleaning.
If the M-Pro 7 Cleaner picks up any carbon fouling on the patch you were not diligent enough with the initial detergent & water brushing out.

Dry the bore, I like to wrap a paper towel patch on a nylon brush. Sometimes I wet the patch with 99% alcohol to collect water that maybe still in the bore's tool marks.

Finish oiling the bore with oil on a paper towel oil patch wrapped on the nylon brush.
Oil the outside side surface metal and any furniture on the firearm.

Examine the wood stock and apply your current wood protection/preservative.

I get a big laugh when I read about "bore seasoning" I can't believe people still buy into that nonsense. When people start using black powder it seem any previous firearm experience they have had with shooting or cleaning goes right into the forget file. Keep you bore as clean as possible by wiping once between shots.
Or don't complain about loading difficulties, always load a tight ball and patch or don't complain about big 50 yard groups. (Pet rant over).

All firearm cleaning and oiling products work, just some work better than others.
 
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Most early - mid 20th centaury armies had a cleaning oil which could be made into a moose milk for removing corrosive primer and cordite residue from their firearms . The Germans used Ballistol , The Dutch copied the Germans and issued recipes for Ballistol to their troops overseas. . The British used a cleaning oil which is basically the same as Youngs 303 oil or Parker Hale oil . Any Idea what was Issued to US troops ?
. I have just looked at Ballistol - The Original CLP - Cleans, Lubricates, Preserves and found they sell a 1 gallon can . Or you can make your own , I've posted this before More DIY lube: Make your own Ballistol
 
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Most early - mid 20th centaury armies had a cleaning oil which could be made into a moose milk for removing corrosive primer and cordite residue from their firearms . The Germans used Ballistol , The Dutch copied the Germans and issued recipes for Ballistol to their troops overseas. . The British used a cleaning oil which is basically the same as Youngs 303 oil or Parker Hale oil . Any Idea what was Issued to US troops ?
. I have just looked at Ballistol - The Original CLP - Cleans, Lubricates, Preserves and found they sell a 1 gallon can . Or you can make your own , I've posted this before More DIY lube: Make your own Ballistol
Thank you sir, I'll follow up on it.
 
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This same question also appears quite often on the sister website, and I just got done posting there, and I like to repost it here. This cleaning thing will never end, which is far better than politics anyway. It probably surprises some, that there's more than one way to clean anything, including muzzleloaders.

Like most people of my generation, I've always been a firm believer that cleanliness was almost next to godliness, especially with a rifle. Even when I hunted with a 22 single shot over 70 years ago, I cleaned it every time I went out, so I have also have done that, with any muzzleloader stuff. Then last September I bought a used Lyman 45 percussion that was last shot probably in the 1980s and never cleaned until I got it. I don't have one of those bore cameras, but after getting the crud out, and then shooting the rifle, and then cleaning it up again, from just looking down the barrel with a good strong light, it looks surprisingly good, and it shoots just fine. There must be some pits in the barrel. Doesn't seem to create any kind of problem, I cleaned the way I always have, warm water and enough number 13 or 17 cleaning patches until everything seemed clean. Sprayed it out with some alcohol, which I've just started this last year, and then coated the inside lightly with kerosene. A day or two later run a couple of damp patches down the barrel and then recoat it. It appears every gun I have is going to outlast me by many years, including this 45 caliber. Many of us are fuss buckets over the right and wrong way to clean, appears some of it is overrated.
Squint
You are correct about using kerosene. I don't often use it because of its flammability, but it cleans metal better than anything.
 
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Warm water to dissolve and flush away any residual "salts".

Detergent (Dawn) in the water is the surfactant that when added to a water reduces its surface tension, thereby increasing its spreading and wetting properties.
Surfactants help the water penetrate the tiny tool marks in the bore steel to help lift and suspend fouling in the water so it can be flushed away.
Detergent also remove patch grease or oil. Try washing greasy hands with just water it won't work to remove grease.

Bronze brushing to mechanically loosen fouling so it can be flushed away.

M-Pro 7 Bore Cleaner a water based cleaner popular with smokeless powder cleaning that has carbon removal as its core function used as a final confirmation cleaning.
If the M-Pro 7 Cleaner picks up any carbon fouling on the patch you were not diligent enough with the initial detergent & water brushing out.

Dry the bore, I like to wrap a paper towel patch on a nylon brush. Sometimes I wet the patch with 99% alcohol to collect water that maybe still in the bore's tool marks.

Finish oiling the bore with oil on a paper towel oil patch wrapped on the nylon brush.
Oil the outside side surface metal and any furniture on the firearm.

Examine the wood stock and apply your current wood protection/preservative.

I get a big laugh when I read about "bore seasoning" I can't believe people still buy into that nonsense. When people start using black powder it seem any previous firearm experience they have had with shooting or cleaning goes right into the forget file. Keep you bore as clean as possible by wiping once between shots.
Or don't complain about loading difficulties, always load a tight ball and patch or don't complain about big 50 yard groups. (Pet rant over).

All firearm cleaning and oiling products work, just some work better than others.
You may laugh about "Bore Seasoning" but IME over 40 years it actually works well, I first read of it in Sam Fadalas (a widely respected ML source in the 80-90's) reference texts, he recommended treating a BP ML's bore the same way your grandmother treated her favourite cast iron cooking skillet, seasoned with a little heat and greased /cooking oil wiped over then let it cool. Think about it, it really is a simple logic.

The fact is that steel tempered for Black powder use, is capable of seasoning and it was a practised routine by our forefathers, if the bore can be sealed why divest it of "patch grease or oil" with all manner of detergents and chemicals ?
Additionally consider the plight of BP Riflemen in the 18th-19th Centurys, do you think that their ML's were plagued with rusted out barrels for the want of using "Detergent (Dawn)" or whatever Surfacants werent available in that era ?

In conclusion, a well seasoned Rifle bore will shed BP fouling with little else than Hot water, yet maintain the seal if detergents / Soap/ chemical or synthetic products arent used.
 
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Greenjoytj

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The burnt on oil of the seasoning always develops cracks or flakes off allowing water to migrate under the seasoning. Pitted bores are the result.

BP Riflemen in the 18th-19th Century could use only what was available at the time.

We live now hundreds of years in their future and have access bore scopes and vastly better cleaning chemicals and preservatives.
Water and detergent are perfect for the initial cleaning but finish up with a modern solvent or CLP’s and finish with synthetic gun oil that can operate at very high temperatures.

I wouldn’t treat a modern AR or Winchester M70 to 18th century technology and techniques, just because the firearm is a muzzle loader an old design, they still cost many dollars to purchase I won’t ruin mine using antiquated care knowledge. Let the obsolete knowledge stay were it belongs in the past.
 

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