Hi. New to this site/old to BP (1975). Years ago, I was told to use boiled linseed oil that was purchased at a gunshop. Paint store BLO is treated to react as true BLO. Does any one know the proper way to boil linseed oil? Also, in my 30+ years of BP, here's 3 things every craftsman should have/read. Dixie Gunworks catalog has 100's of nuggets throughout the book. The DVD/VHS of "The Gunsmiths of Williamsburg". Foxfire 5, mostly about BP shooting and building.
-
This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.
Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades -
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
Boiled Linseed oil
- Thread starter OldJoe
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
It is my understanding that boiled linseed oil used alone was not the finish of choice on original longrifles. The oil was first boiled to a rolling boil for a period of time, don't remember how long, then blended with various driers that sometimes doubled as coloring agents that formed an oil varnish very similar to seed-lac or tried-and-true finish.
Personally, I don't like BLO. Right from the can, it takes forever to dry, isn't water resistant, and gets tacky when wet.
I have not tried this, but I'm told that those properties of BLO can be improved by purifying the oil by marking off a wine bottle, for example, about 1/3 from the top. Divide the space below that line into thirds. Fill with 2 parts oil and 1 part water. Don't fill above the top line. Add a small handful of small, clean pebbles or sand. Cap securely and shake the bottle vigorously for about 15 minutes, let stand for a coupla days then put it in the freezer for a coupla days. Make sure the contents of the bottle has plenty of room to expand.
After a day or two pull it out and pour off anything that is not frozen into another container. This is your washed oil - much of the mucilage will remain in the frozen water which will look cloudy or dirty.
The clarified oil is supposed to dry more quickly and seal a little better.
Personally, I don't like BLO. Right from the can, it takes forever to dry, isn't water resistant, and gets tacky when wet.
I have not tried this, but I'm told that those properties of BLO can be improved by purifying the oil by marking off a wine bottle, for example, about 1/3 from the top. Divide the space below that line into thirds. Fill with 2 parts oil and 1 part water. Don't fill above the top line. Add a small handful of small, clean pebbles or sand. Cap securely and shake the bottle vigorously for about 15 minutes, let stand for a coupla days then put it in the freezer for a coupla days. Make sure the contents of the bottle has plenty of room to expand.
After a day or two pull it out and pour off anything that is not frozen into another container. This is your washed oil - much of the mucilage will remain in the frozen water which will look cloudy or dirty.
The clarified oil is supposed to dry more quickly and seal a little better.
Tinker2 said:
Correct, it has a "dryer" added. (not really "boiled")
Stophel
75 Cal.
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2005
- Messages
- 5,949
- Reaction score
- 858
Modern "boiled" linseed oil just has a drying substance added to it. I believe it is manganese based. It is not boiled.
I've been making "period type" boiled linseed oil varnish. I don't really do just the oil, because I would have no real use for it, especially when it is easy to drop in some resins and make varnish out of it.
I have some "varnish makers oil" from Wood Finishing Enterprises, which is a nice, clean grade of cold pressed linseed oil. Whether or not this is any better in a practical sense, I don't know, but why not get the best, since it isn't very expensive.
I boil the oil in an electric deep fryer, so there is no open flame, no open element for oil to drip on and catch fire. What you need is just a low, rolling boil. It does not have to be really gurgling. I add a little bit of lead carbonate (lead white, it is a historical white pigment, and was used as a dryer) and let it boil for a while before adding my resins.
By the way, you can add turpentine to the oil while it's boiling, which is supposed to help the turpentine react with the oil and it will dry faster, but I STRONGLY recommend against it! DO NOT add turpentine to the oil while you are heating it. Turpentine has a low flash point, and when it flashes....look out. Really bad news, believe me.
At some point, between 30 minutes and an hour and a half, the oil will get VERY thick (after it cools, that is). If I boil it for a half an hour, it will still remain the familiar smooth consistency, but if I boil it for over an hour or so, it will be exceptionally thick, and when I turn the heat off, I have to let the stuff cool a bit (but still rather warm so it will be fluid), add some turpentine or aged turpentine and then pour it into my glass jars (if it is too hot it will break the jar, if it is too cold, it will be so stiff, it won't pour!). The longer you boil it, the faster it will dry. If you only boil it for a half an hour, it will dry much more slowly than if you boil it longer. I think basically what you are doing when you boil it is "pre-drying" the oil (they say that you are "pre-polymerizing" it).
Without resins, this is what was called "black oil". The lead carbonate and the boiling turns the oil a dark chestnut color (it also changes the smell too). I add resins to make a varnish. Two resins that are easy to dissolve are rosin and mastic. Rosin is cheap, as it's a byproduct of turpentine production, so it was relatively cheap at the time. Mastic is...not so cheap. I make a "plain brown varnish" that you see period references to. It dries reasonably hard and really welds itself to the wood, and won't flake or scratch off without damaging the wood.
Linseed oil varnish has to be applied in EXCEPTIONALLY THIN coats. Really thin. No, thinner than that. If it is applied too heavily, it will dry on the surface, but it will remain "pressure sensitive" for a VERY long time...believe me, I know. If it is applied very thin, and put into the sun to dry, it will dry relatively quickly. Several hours, but I would leave it out at least a day...better make it two, for each coat, just to make sure (can you tell that this has been a problem for me during my varnish experimentation?)
When I apply the varnish, I get a drop on my finger tip and dunk my fingers into turpentine and mix it up. I end up with more turpentine than varnish, but you have to, when it is this thick.
By the way, you can make your varnish without the driers added, if you want a totally "non toxic" (even edible) finish. It will take longer to dry, but it will dry. You can buy something like this ready made and it is the Tried and True "varnish oil". It is made of linseed oil and rosin. It does work, but I think it is a bit soft, and could stand to have some more resins added in to harden it up some.
I do not think that linseed oil was used much (if ever) as a stock finish 200 years ago. I've sure done oil finishes myself, but I'm trying to wean myself away from them. A typical finish SEEMS to have been a shellac/seedlac/buttonlac/etc. grain filler (a "spit coat"), with the oil varnish only as a top coat. When I see old guns, particularly old guns that are in any kind of shape, I can tell that they were definitely not oil finished. The color is relatively light and the grain is clear. The stocks are not super dark (usually).
Much of "my research" has been done by Eric Kettenburg, to whom I am very thankful, along with some fellow varnish experimenters who have helped me along (I'm still getting things figured out). I've also gained some good bit of information from violin varnish making publications and websites. If it weren't for instrument makers, there would be basically no interest or research into historical varnishes.
It's something that takes practice, experimentation, and lots of patience (the latter I do not have). Once you get everything figured out, it is not that difficult, but it will always be more involved than just slapping on a modern synthetic resin and oil varnish.
I've been making "period type" boiled linseed oil varnish. I don't really do just the oil, because I would have no real use for it, especially when it is easy to drop in some resins and make varnish out of it.
I have some "varnish makers oil" from Wood Finishing Enterprises, which is a nice, clean grade of cold pressed linseed oil. Whether or not this is any better in a practical sense, I don't know, but why not get the best, since it isn't very expensive.
I boil the oil in an electric deep fryer, so there is no open flame, no open element for oil to drip on and catch fire. What you need is just a low, rolling boil. It does not have to be really gurgling. I add a little bit of lead carbonate (lead white, it is a historical white pigment, and was used as a dryer) and let it boil for a while before adding my resins.
By the way, you can add turpentine to the oil while it's boiling, which is supposed to help the turpentine react with the oil and it will dry faster, but I STRONGLY recommend against it! DO NOT add turpentine to the oil while you are heating it. Turpentine has a low flash point, and when it flashes....look out. Really bad news, believe me.
At some point, between 30 minutes and an hour and a half, the oil will get VERY thick (after it cools, that is). If I boil it for a half an hour, it will still remain the familiar smooth consistency, but if I boil it for over an hour or so, it will be exceptionally thick, and when I turn the heat off, I have to let the stuff cool a bit (but still rather warm so it will be fluid), add some turpentine or aged turpentine and then pour it into my glass jars (if it is too hot it will break the jar, if it is too cold, it will be so stiff, it won't pour!). The longer you boil it, the faster it will dry. If you only boil it for a half an hour, it will dry much more slowly than if you boil it longer. I think basically what you are doing when you boil it is "pre-drying" the oil (they say that you are "pre-polymerizing" it).
Without resins, this is what was called "black oil". The lead carbonate and the boiling turns the oil a dark chestnut color (it also changes the smell too). I add resins to make a varnish. Two resins that are easy to dissolve are rosin and mastic. Rosin is cheap, as it's a byproduct of turpentine production, so it was relatively cheap at the time. Mastic is...not so cheap. I make a "plain brown varnish" that you see period references to. It dries reasonably hard and really welds itself to the wood, and won't flake or scratch off without damaging the wood.
Linseed oil varnish has to be applied in EXCEPTIONALLY THIN coats. Really thin. No, thinner than that. If it is applied too heavily, it will dry on the surface, but it will remain "pressure sensitive" for a VERY long time...believe me, I know. If it is applied very thin, and put into the sun to dry, it will dry relatively quickly. Several hours, but I would leave it out at least a day...better make it two, for each coat, just to make sure (can you tell that this has been a problem for me during my varnish experimentation?)
When I apply the varnish, I get a drop on my finger tip and dunk my fingers into turpentine and mix it up. I end up with more turpentine than varnish, but you have to, when it is this thick.
By the way, you can make your varnish without the driers added, if you want a totally "non toxic" (even edible) finish. It will take longer to dry, but it will dry. You can buy something like this ready made and it is the Tried and True "varnish oil". It is made of linseed oil and rosin. It does work, but I think it is a bit soft, and could stand to have some more resins added in to harden it up some.
I do not think that linseed oil was used much (if ever) as a stock finish 200 years ago. I've sure done oil finishes myself, but I'm trying to wean myself away from them. A typical finish SEEMS to have been a shellac/seedlac/buttonlac/etc. grain filler (a "spit coat"), with the oil varnish only as a top coat. When I see old guns, particularly old guns that are in any kind of shape, I can tell that they were definitely not oil finished. The color is relatively light and the grain is clear. The stocks are not super dark (usually).
Much of "my research" has been done by Eric Kettenburg, to whom I am very thankful, along with some fellow varnish experimenters who have helped me along (I'm still getting things figured out). I've also gained some good bit of information from violin varnish making publications and websites. If it weren't for instrument makers, there would be basically no interest or research into historical varnishes.
It's something that takes practice, experimentation, and lots of patience (the latter I do not have). Once you get everything figured out, it is not that difficult, but it will always be more involved than just slapping on a modern synthetic resin and oil varnish.
Stophel
75 Cal.
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2005
- Messages
- 5,949
- Reaction score
- 858
I think it will pretty much last forever. It will skim over A LITTLE sitting in the jar, but it will mix right back in (I don't leave it sitting all that long anyway, so this doesn't happen to me much). If it does begin to stiffen, I am told that you can just warm it until it is fluid again, and add turpentine as needed.
Linseed oil is definitely "photochemically reactive", and absolutely requires sunlight to dry. You can set it in a warm, dry room and it will probably never dry. Set it in the sun, and it will be dry in a few hours. It is the UV light that is necessary. I have found that blacklights can be used to help when there is no sunlight outside, but they are a poor substitue for good old fashioned sunshine. They make UV curing lamps that are used in industry to dry varnishes, but that's just a bit more of an investment than I'm willing to make! :grin:
My recipe is basically copied from Eric Kettenburg. I take one pint of oil, boil it for a while, add 1 teaspoon of lead carbonate. I also added one teaspoon of burnt umber into my last batch. Umbers are high in manganese and are an excellent drying agent. Paint made with umber pigments are reported to dry MUCH faster than paints made with siennas or other pigments. I don't know if my adding a bit of umber helps, but it can't hurt. Just don't put a lot in, as umbers are utterly opaque. I thought I had come up with a good idea on my own, but EK told me that he has done this too, and it helps. I boil for about an hour and then add my resins. I think with my last batch I used 6oz. of dark rosin and 2oz. of mastic. Just dump 'em in a little at a time (it will foam up if you put it in all at once). Stir it up and keep it boiling for another half hour or so. Again, just a slow rolling boil, which is all my little fryer thingy will do anyway.
Rosin and Mastic both dissolve very easily in the hot oil, so that's what I use. I have tried Benzoine, and it works, but benzoine is FILTHY, and full of dead bugs, sticks, bark, etc. and you will get lots of junk in your varnish (Benzoine comes from the almond tree, and you can actually buy benzoine with almonds embedded in it! It smells good too). Now, you can filter it out, I suppose, before you boil it too much and it is still thin enough to pour through a filter...
Other resins require them to be "run" at high temperature separately before adding to the oil, which I have not cared to involve myself in, especially for what I think would be not that much of an advantage. Fossil copal (along with sandarac and some others) is supposed to make the best varnish, but just how much better it is as opposed to my ordinary rosin varnish, I don't know, but I'm thinkin' that for me, it ain't worth the trouble. :wink:
After I am satisfied that it has been boiling long enough, I turn off the heat and walk away (do this outside, by the way, away from anything that you don't want to set fire to). I let it cool down some, but leave it pretty warm and then I add some aged turpentine, which I also get from Wood Finishing Enterprises. Again, I'm an alchemist, not a chemist, so I can't say exactly why aged turpentine is better. Alpha Pinenes and Beta Pinenes and all that... I then pour it in a mason jar and there it is, ready to go.
I'm finishing a gun right now. Actually refinishing it. I tend to screw up a lot, and I don't consider myself done with a stock unless I have stripped it all off at least once. I had a finishing disaster, mostly due to me putting on too much varnish at one time in at least one of my coats, and, though dry, was pressure sensitive, and if you mashed your finger on it for several seconds, it would get tacky, and leave a fingerprint. SO, I stripped 'er off and did it again. Fixed a few bad spots while I was at it, and it looks better now. I only have my first coat of varnish on at the moment, and it is not yet completely dry. I didn't have much daylight left the other day when I put it on. It's fairly dry, but still a bit "grippy" right now.
One thing that I really notice about this kind of varnish is that is just plain LOOKS better than modern varnish, which often just looks lifeless and blah. This varnish is a deep brown color and "brings out the life" of the wood better than modern varnish. It looks fantastic on unstained curly maple too...a beautiful shimmering golden brown!
Wow, I talk even more about varnish than I do about politics and gun control! :haha:
Linseed oil is definitely "photochemically reactive", and absolutely requires sunlight to dry. You can set it in a warm, dry room and it will probably never dry. Set it in the sun, and it will be dry in a few hours. It is the UV light that is necessary. I have found that blacklights can be used to help when there is no sunlight outside, but they are a poor substitue for good old fashioned sunshine. They make UV curing lamps that are used in industry to dry varnishes, but that's just a bit more of an investment than I'm willing to make! :grin:
My recipe is basically copied from Eric Kettenburg. I take one pint of oil, boil it for a while, add 1 teaspoon of lead carbonate. I also added one teaspoon of burnt umber into my last batch. Umbers are high in manganese and are an excellent drying agent. Paint made with umber pigments are reported to dry MUCH faster than paints made with siennas or other pigments. I don't know if my adding a bit of umber helps, but it can't hurt. Just don't put a lot in, as umbers are utterly opaque. I thought I had come up with a good idea on my own, but EK told me that he has done this too, and it helps. I boil for about an hour and then add my resins. I think with my last batch I used 6oz. of dark rosin and 2oz. of mastic. Just dump 'em in a little at a time (it will foam up if you put it in all at once). Stir it up and keep it boiling for another half hour or so. Again, just a slow rolling boil, which is all my little fryer thingy will do anyway.
Rosin and Mastic both dissolve very easily in the hot oil, so that's what I use. I have tried Benzoine, and it works, but benzoine is FILTHY, and full of dead bugs, sticks, bark, etc. and you will get lots of junk in your varnish (Benzoine comes from the almond tree, and you can actually buy benzoine with almonds embedded in it! It smells good too). Now, you can filter it out, I suppose, before you boil it too much and it is still thin enough to pour through a filter...
Other resins require them to be "run" at high temperature separately before adding to the oil, which I have not cared to involve myself in, especially for what I think would be not that much of an advantage. Fossil copal (along with sandarac and some others) is supposed to make the best varnish, but just how much better it is as opposed to my ordinary rosin varnish, I don't know, but I'm thinkin' that for me, it ain't worth the trouble. :wink:
After I am satisfied that it has been boiling long enough, I turn off the heat and walk away (do this outside, by the way, away from anything that you don't want to set fire to). I let it cool down some, but leave it pretty warm and then I add some aged turpentine, which I also get from Wood Finishing Enterprises. Again, I'm an alchemist, not a chemist, so I can't say exactly why aged turpentine is better. Alpha Pinenes and Beta Pinenes and all that... I then pour it in a mason jar and there it is, ready to go.
I'm finishing a gun right now. Actually refinishing it. I tend to screw up a lot, and I don't consider myself done with a stock unless I have stripped it all off at least once. I had a finishing disaster, mostly due to me putting on too much varnish at one time in at least one of my coats, and, though dry, was pressure sensitive, and if you mashed your finger on it for several seconds, it would get tacky, and leave a fingerprint. SO, I stripped 'er off and did it again. Fixed a few bad spots while I was at it, and it looks better now. I only have my first coat of varnish on at the moment, and it is not yet completely dry. I didn't have much daylight left the other day when I put it on. It's fairly dry, but still a bit "grippy" right now.
One thing that I really notice about this kind of varnish is that is just plain LOOKS better than modern varnish, which often just looks lifeless and blah. This varnish is a deep brown color and "brings out the life" of the wood better than modern varnish. It looks fantastic on unstained curly maple too...a beautiful shimmering golden brown!
Wow, I talk even more about varnish than I do about politics and gun control! :haha:
Here is the link to Muzzleblast
Traditional Varnishes by Eric Kettenburg
Traditional Varnishes by Eric Kettenburg
Similar threads
- Locked
