Blunderbuss, 1777 French carbine, English trade gun advice....????!!??

[David Y. Snellen]

Gentlemen,
I would appreciate your advice. 3 years ago I had a double lung transplant (never smoked a single cigarette in my life). My endurance is declining some and firearm weight (for carrying) is a big issue for me now.
So I am planning to sell a dragoon pistol and Austin Halleck to get a light weight colonial era smooth bore piece. Ideally, it would be good if it could be used for hunting, but that isn't the main issue. I am looking at Loyalist.

I have heard the brass barrel on the blunderbuss is difficult to clean (plus I expect it isn't as strong, but don't know). I figure for hunting it is pretty pointless except maybe for rabbits (and I don't eat rabbit). I have heard they are fun though and they would be easy to carry.

The 1777 French Carbine would be a fairly light gun, easy to take the barrel off and could maybe be used for hunting.

The English trade gun looks like it too could be used for hunting and seems pretty short.

I like the look of the 1690 French gun, but it seems too long which would defeat my need for short/light easy to carry.

Primarily I have always done 1840-65 focusing on Missouri Partisan Ranger, but my son (soon to be 13) is into the Rev War era and I do shoot flint sometimes, so I figure something from that era is something we could both use.

What do y'all think? Any other suggestions?
I really appreciate your advice,
David

 

[Brokennock]

Short does not always equate to light and long to heavy.
I find my Centermark Fusil des Chase to be quite light and handy, especially compared to my Early Virginia smoothrifle. Both, are 20 gauge, both octagon to round, but different barrel wall thicknesses, and different architecture.
If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking for a well made Fusil des Chase, an English Type-G trade gun, a colonial fowling piece, or a N.W. trade gun,,,, in that order.
Of course too "heavy" or "light enough" are relative terms.

 

[David Y. Snellen]

Dear Sir,
That is a good point. Short is convenient though. This lung thing has really hindered things....

 

[Black Powder Guy]

Dear Mr Snellen,
I went to a few sites and a rifle for a person the size of my adult daughter is 5lbs, a Pedersoli Kentucky Rifle between 6 and 7lbs, a fowler from Cabin Creek 7lbs. Brian

 

[Elkhorse]

Sitting Fox has canoe guns and others

 

[Treestalker]

I like 'canoe guns' for the same reasons as the OP, disability. If you can use a smoothbore, a 20-24" barrel cut down trade gun will be sweet. To achieve hunting performance, send it to Caywood Gunmakers in Berryville, Arkansas, and have it 'jug choked'. This will extend your range and give you a decent pattern. Also, add a sling if it doesn't have one, and perhaps a rudimentary rear sight for patched round ball shooting. Good luck with your project, I sympathize with your frustrating condition. May your burden be light and your paths smooth, Geo.

 

[David Y. Snellen]

Gentlemen,
I really appreciate your advice. Slings I have found make a WORLD of difference. For some reason carrying in front is harder.
I was thinking of Loyalist because of variety and size. I have bought from them before and was pleased with what I got. The prices have really gone up though. Maybe I can find a used fowler and cut it down....
David

 

[Brokennock]

Gentlemen,
I really appreciate your advice. Slings I have found make a WORLD of difference. For some reason carrying in front is harder.
I was thinking of Loyalist because of variety and size. I have bought from them before and was pleased with what I got. The prices have really gone up though. Maybe I can find a used fowler and cut it down....
David

Where are you from?

 

[Silky921]

I think the canoe gun route or a trade gun with a 30" barrel would be good choice. Easy to fit a sling on either.

Also, I feel like the design of the blunderbuss would make it a pain to carry on a sling.

 

[tenngun]

The Indian guns like loyalist or discriminating general are made with teak. It looks enough like walnut to easily fool the eye. But it’s very heavy compared to maple or walnut. In terms of weight I dont know how much it adds

 

[smoothshooter]

I like 'canoe guns' for the same reasons as the OP, disability. If you can use a smoothbore, a 20-24" barrel cut down trade gun will be sweet. To achieve hunting performance, send it to Caywood Gunmakers in Berryville, Arkansas, and have it 'jug choked'. This will extend your range and give you a decent pattern. Also, add a sling if it doesn't have one, and perhaps a rudimentary rear sight for patched round ball shooting. Good luck with your project, I sympathize with your frustrating condition. May your burden be light and your paths smooth, Geo.

Isn’t it more difficult to load safely muzzleloading long guns with really short barrels because it is hard to keep from leaning over the muzzle with your upper body during the process as you clamp it between your knees?

 

[David Y. Snellen]

Gentlemen,
I am from and live in central Missouri (and here we pronounce it Muzourah) so I want to be correct for my area. I don't see many colonial era smoothbores around the 5-700 range anymore.
David

 

[Loyalist Dave]

..., Ideally, it would be good if it could be used for hunting, but that isn't the main issue. I am looking at Loyalist.

I have heard the brass barrel on the blunderbuss is difficult to clean (plus I expect it isn't as strong, but don't know). I figure for hunting it is pretty pointless except maybe for rabbits (and I don't eat rabbit). I have heard they are fun though and they would be easy to carry.

The 1777 French Carbine would be a fairly light gun, easy to take the barrel off and could maybe be used for hunting.

The English trade gun looks like it too could be used for hunting and seems pretty short.

I like the look of the 1690 French gun, but it seems too long which would defeat my need for short/light easy to carry.
..., but my son (soon to be 13) is into the Rev War era and I do shoot flint sometimes, so I figure something from that era is something we could both use.

What do y'all think? Any other suggestions?

So you really have only a few choices (imho). You want light, and you want to participate with your son doing something AWI, and Loyalist.

OF COURSE please check with your local group, as they may let some stuff "slide" a bit for your situation.

Some folks have suggested a canoe gun. Well they are nice, but they were invented in the 20th century for guys hunting from canoes, or on canoe-treks who wanted a handy gun while handling the boat. You don't hunt, and it was never a Colonial Era gun, so it's out. (Unless as I mentioned, the local militia group with which you are going to participate, allows it.) The Sitting Fox French Canoe Gun, with the 24", 20 gauge barrel, will be the lightest of all options, AND will accept a sling. The second question after "will the local group accept the canoe gun?" is "Are they available?" as a lot of parts are scarce due to Covid. The best choice on backorder for 2 years, really isn't that good, eh?

Now, the India made guns are out. They are not made with Teak, otherwise they'd cost as much as Italian guns, but they are made with Indian Rosewood, and that makes no real difference. Heavy is heavy eh? They're several pounds heavier than their European or American reproduction guns.

A blunderbus is actually an English Coach Gun. The muzzle is flared so that you can load it while riding on the coach seat next to the driver, shooting at pursuing highwaymen. So yes, there really isn't a sight, and you really can't point it well, but at 20 feet using a load of buckshot and shooting down at a dude on a horse who is chasing you (OR snap shooting a guy swinging from the enemy ship on a rope to board your ship), they work pretty well. So they really don't work well for Militia use, where you were required to have a musket, OR you were issued a musket belonging to the colony.

A Jaeger rifle is short, but the barrel as it's a rifle tends to be thick so it may be heavy, but they do take a sling. Pedersoli lists it's factory Jaeger at 8.15 lbs.

A Short musket, which is really an artillery carbine, will work, but that also may be a bit heavy as it's rather robust. Pedersoli lists theirs at 7.93 lbs.

So that really leaves a trade gun if the canoe gun doesn't work for your group. A 20 gauge with a 30-36 inch barrel. A Carolina Gun would work for some militias, or a Pedersoli Indian Trade Musket would work. Pedersoli lists these at 7.27 lbs. They are a bit pricey although the Pedersoli kit tends to be the least expensive, but they are good guns and the lightest that I can think of that work for your requirements.

Another option, if anything larger than a canoe gun is too heavy and the canoe gun is too anachronistic... how about a brace of pistols? A lot of events they don't let pistols be shot, but it would allow you to participate and carry arms ...,

LD

 

[Osseon]

I have a French Blunderbuss from Veteran arms, and yeah the barrel is hard to clean a bit because what fits snuggly at the breach is loose at the muzzle, so swabbing is a bit of a PITA on consistency. I also wouldn't consider it light per se, but its small and a blast to shoot. The shot spread is what you would consider cartoon or movie level (or video games for certain folks) As in shooting at a 25 yard target I often only hit 2 out of 12 .32 balls on a paper. It really is a room sweeper.

The Graphene in Black powder really cakes up the brass on the inside of the barrel and even though its considered "clean" it looses the shiny brass look inside the barrel unless you scrub it with a metal bristle. At least with the veteran arms version you'll probably have to remove the barrel a lot to get the barrel polished and shining.

Its a good "Beater" gun.

 

[David Y. Snellen]

Great information.
Thank you all!
David

 

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

Just weighed both my 20-bore flinters - they weighed in at 7 lb 15 oz. each. Those smoothbores could either fire shot, or a .610 patched ball.

It is possible - and probable at the time - to put slings on such a firearm. Those Army guys would sacrifice function over form from time to time. I would put a 5/32 pin through the fore stock just in front of the top thimble, and mount the forward end of the sling there, using an appropriate attachment available from MLBS or Track. The rear sling attachment was done in either of two ways - floppy buckle through the leading portion of the trigger guard, or one of the screw-in large diameter sling attaching buttons into the bottom edge of the buttstock. The sling could be a finger-woven pattern, or one of leather, take your pick. Our Revolutionary war soldiers were known to adapt and overcome.