Blueing

Discussion in 'Flintlock Rifles' started by 7shortmag, Jan 15, 2020.

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  1. Jan 17, 2020 #21

    Ezeikel

    Ezeikel

    Ezeikel

    32 Cal

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    Thank you Erwan, My good friend Rudyard speaks highly of you so I take this opportunity to introduce my self. Bonjour mon ami
     
  2. Jan 17, 2020 #22

    Zonie

    Zonie

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    Erwan gave the definition but simply put, it means getting rid of the unwanted, loose rust that forms when a part is being browned.

    Browning is just a hard, brown layer of rust but there are more than one kind of rusts.
    There is the soft, red rust, a hard brown rust and a hard black rust. The brown and black rusts are what we want to have on our guns to protect them against further rust.

    Carding with a steel brush or steel wool easily removes the soft red rust but leaves the hard rusts.
    The hard rusts don't protect the steel all by themselves but they do like to absorb oil.
    When a layer of oil is applied, the hard rust absorbs it and stays in the rust. This oil keeps the oxygen in the air away from the steel under it so, it provides protection.
     
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  3. Jan 18, 2020 #23

    7shortmag

    7shortmag

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    I did not know much of this.
    Very interesting
    Thanks Fellas!!
     
  4. Jan 18, 2020 #24

    Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson

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    I use a piece of washed blue jean material to card with, it works very well. I give the part a good scrubbing with the material.

    browned 002.JPG
     
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  5. Jan 18, 2020 #25

    Ezeikel

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    Yes I imagine that would work very well. Ive been using those anti static duster cloths when the missus has finished with them. I wonder weather a fine nylon brush would work?
     
  6. Jan 19, 2020 #26

    Mike Rayburn

    Mike Rayburn

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    Eric, Mike Rayburn here.,Thank u for the kind words about my rust blueing; it's actually a rust browning that I've been using for several years...I make the solution myself...I got the formula from a reprint of an 1840's era book...works pretty good..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2020
  7. Jan 19, 2020 #27

    Ezeikel

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    Tell us where to find that formula or post it please Mike
     
  8. Jan 19, 2020 #28

    Mike Rayburn

    Mike Rayburn

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    Let me introduce myself...I've been shooting muzzleloader since 1976 and building them since the early 90's...primarily flintlocks. I'm a retired deputy sheriff from Pensacola Fl., 28 years of service, 4 1/2 yrs. retired...I started making my own browning solution because the supply I had was running low & someone told me it would b easier to buy commercially avaible products & less hazardous. I didn't listen..I will caution those that want to venture on making their own solution that the chemicals involved are extremely hazardous ,& expensive, or I should say the HAZMAT fees are expensive. The formula I used is found in the reprint of an 1846 book called The Science of Gunnery, by William Greener...page 177...I also read the book FOXFIRE 5, it has a lot of good info in it.
    So, that's it gentlemen, good luck..
     
  9. Jan 19, 2020 #29

    MSW

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    Mr. Rayburn, thank you sir for the reference - I will try to get a copy of the Foxfire book (had one once, but thay was about four or five moves ago … long gone now) -- thanks again!!
     
  10. Jan 20, 2020 #30

    flntlokr

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    There is a formula in Greeners book THE GUN. I made a pint of it years ago and hve done several guns. I no longer have the formula. You will have to figure out what some of the chemicals are called nowadays.
     
  11. Jan 20, 2020 #31

    Ezeikel

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    Im always looking for these formulas in hopes that one may be practical to make. Here in the south Pacific most of the commercial products are not available and the only recourse is to make it yourself. giving up is not an option so all help is gratefully received
     
  12. Jan 20, 2020 #32

    Mike Rayburn

    Mike Rayburn

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    Another good book on blueing & browning is called FIREARM BLUEING & BROWNING by R.H. Angrier. It has a lot of info on equipment and techniques...
     
  13. Jan 20, 2020 #33

    poker

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    Theres lots of good information here. I had a few questions though? What makes cold bluing non-durable? Or isn’t it? I have a hard time thinking if grows or promotes black rust like hot bluing does, whats the difference? Is it depth of penetration? Just hard to get on evenly? Or is there more than one type of black rust?
     
  14. Jan 20, 2020 #34

    denster

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    A lot of cold blues only lay down a thin copper plate and then color that. These are not durable at all. Some of the newer cold blues like Oxpho blue and Van's actually color the metal and are fairly durable but do not color by a controlled rusting. Both do require attention to surface prep and many users polish to too fine a degree for best application. The best are the controlled rusting blues and they really don't require that much equipment just a long trough and a method of heating water in it to a boil.
     
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  15. Jan 20, 2020 #35

    Mike Rayburn

    Mike Rayburn

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    What he said...it's kinda like comparing water colors to acrylic paint, they both get the job done. but the acrylic is much more durable...I don't normally boil my barrels til after the last carding, but I'm forever experimenting to get the best results...next time I will boil after each carding & see what happens...At my hunting camp now, will be next week before I can get back to it...will keep ya'll posted...
     
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  16. Jan 20, 2020 #36

    sealgaire

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    Highly recommend this book (if you can find a copy), Author's name is Angier. I used this may years ago when teaching Chemistry, great labs came from it.
     
  17. Jan 20, 2020 #37

    Mike Rayburn

    Mike Rayburn

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    U are correct, misspelled the authors name, my bad...
     
  18. Jan 21, 2020 #38

    Tom Compton

    Tom Compton

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  19. Jan 21, 2020 #39

    brianpa40

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    When I had my Hot water Blue set up I used sunny side muriatic acid 50-50 with water to take the bluing off. You can get it at most hardware stores and wally world. Then I cleaned and degreased with TSP (tri sodium Phosphate) which is a cleaner they use on dairy farms to clean every thing. It is non toxic and does not leave a residue. Four 0 steel wool degreased always worked the best for me when it came to carding down the rust. You just have to make sure the barrel is completely clean and degreased wear clean cotton gloves or rubber gloves.
     
  20. Jan 21, 2020 #40

    Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson

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    Here is Mike at the show, I wish I had taken my camera for some close ups of his work, I snatched this picture off the blog spot. He had a Kibler Colonial rifle finished by Jim Kibler himself with all the bells and whistles, Jim's artistry was amazing, the best I have ever seen.

    Mike I sent you a PM about the guy I sent your way.

    Mike Rayburn.jpg
     

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