Big, big game with a patched round ball.

[JeffG]

Last year I took a watusi bull with my .458 WM. I had intended to shoot it with a flint .54 cal smootbore and a patched round ball. The testing I did, led me to believe it was not up to the task. Rather than a significant amount of penetration, it tended to go off at angles in a number of test mediums; wood, carpet, water jugs... I think it was because of a lack of rifling spin on the ball.

I have a .50 cal flinter that is great with round ball. But I wonder if a round ball would be sufficient on a bison sized animal. My armchair question, (yes, I will get to the range) is, would I be better to compare round ball against saboted 240 gr .44 cal pistol bullets? I would start in the neighborhood of 90 grs FFFG. Anyone tried this?
What are the opinions that a spun ball would do better that a PRB from a smoothbore?

 

[tenngun]

Plenty of buff taken by PRB. Though I might think .50 is on the smaller side. Certainly woodlands buff went down before them,though .54 or 8 was seen on some rifles contemporary with large woodland herds.
Out west lots of .50s went west, but there was a tendency to increase bore size with .54s becoming common.
Does that mean the .54 is better? I don’t know. Looking at ballistic tables the .50 can hit with more energy then a .54, so maybe this was a convenients 2 balls to the ounce or 32 to a pound and just a handy way to keep track of your lead needs.?
However to a buff,moose, or elk I would take a .54. And would rather have my .62.
As to a spin, most of my smoothies shots are straight or near straight through. Lots of the old cape guns were smooth as the big loads would strip the rifling.

 

[No Deer]

Just for some comparison, I have a couple of friends that shot buffalo with their 20 ga, smooth bore trade guns. Both had through and through hits, don't remember the distance, but I am sure it was less than 50 yard. I don't know how the .54 would do though.

 

[BrownBear]

I checked in with my bud, the lifetime muzzleloader who guides free-range buffalo hunts. He reports that he's guided hunters using 50 cal round balls, but held their shots to 50 yards. Best results have been with round balls cast from wheelweights, to the point that he keeps a stock on hand (along with an assortment of patch material) for hunters who don't have them. They do some load testing and sight-in before heading out to hunt. He's sneaky. That also gives him a chance to see how clients shoot, to learn whether he needs to get them even closer than 50 yards for a shot.

His preference is for 54 cal or larger. Still takes those clients out for "sight-in." Just so he can learn if they need to be guided closer than 50 yards, too :grin:

His words: "Buff die easy. It's not so much what you hit them with, but where you put it."

 

[Sparkitoff]

I do not think you can fairly compare a .50 ball to a 240 grain pistol bullet at all.

As a retired PH we often had Watusi on our TX ranch. I don't think you need a 458 WM for them, but a lot of big-bore enthusiasts liked to use their special rifle on Watusi. Two things come to mind that are of consideration when using a smaller PRB or any single shot on Watusi. Usually you can get pretty close to them, especially in a brushy area. That may help shot placement and can be either good or bad for penetration depending on the projectile and its composition and mechanics. Second, Watusi that are wounded tend to wander a lot more than Bison or Water Buffalo (the other popular bovines on the ranch). So getting close for a second shot might require covering a lot of distance and then more stealth on closing the distance, and a significant time-lapse from the initial shot to the second opportunity.

Quartering away with a center-lungs shot is pretty effective if you get a hole in both lungs. Every one is different. I've seen them drop from an arrow and I've seen then require several shots from "big" rifles. Just sticking with projectile weight and velocity the closest thing that comes to mind is a 44 mag or 45 Colt from a rifle. I've been present for at least a dozen Watusi shot with these rifles and I cannot say there is any consistency in what occurred among the instances. Each was a thing unto itself. Regardless, I don't think those bullets can compare apples to apples with a PRB.

If you want to shoot a Watusi in TX I will offer that you can shoot your .50 Flintlock first and I can hold your smoothbore as your second shot - or vice-verse. I come out of retirement once in a while when something interests me personally. You can PM me if interested.

You ask whether a projectile from a rifled barrel would be more effective than one from a smooth barrel. Your reference is to two different sizes and weights. I think there are too many variables once the ball leaves the barrel. You asked about 90 grain charge. I use 80 grains in a .54 (rifled) and a .62 (smooth) and have taken some pretty big stuff like elk, zebra, eland and bison. So based on that alone I don't have a reason to believe you need more than the 90 grains you propose. What is the velocity gain with more powder at the muzzle and at the target? Can your ball withstand the increased velocity at impact? These questions require some extensive experimentation and not speculation or conclusion based on someone else's limited experiences.

You question is interesting and thought provoking. In my experience there is too much variable for anyone to be able to give you a solid answer. It will be interesting to find out!

 

[JeffG]

Thanks for all of the replies! Looks like I am due some good range time. (poor me :wink: ) I will report results back. Thanks again. :hatsoff:

 

[Zonie]

As a "PS", the forum rules forbid discussing sabots and jacketed pistol bullets.

This is a muzzleloading site that is for discussing things that were in use during and prior to the Civil War.

 

[JeffG]

Duly noted and I apologize. After I realized the error I tried to edit. Mods feel free please.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

OR..., maybe you NEED A NEW RIFLE !

James Forsyth in the 1860's used patched round ball when lots of other folks were into conicals, and he hunted stuff as big as elephants. So bison or cape buffalo I'm pretty sure his sized guns would do the trick...,

You might want to look into a 14-bore [.69] or perhaps an 8-bore [.84] and you might want one in a rifle.

LD

 

[excess650]

IIRC, Forsyth advocated heavy powder charges to flatten trajectory and slow twist to keep the ball flying straight. The 100gr-120gr loads that I shoot in my .62 would have been light loads. :haha:

I have shot a rifled .69 with 140gr under the 1oz RB, and while it would be a fine hunting rifle(9#), it was more "fun" than I would want at the range. Having witnessed a slightly hardened 1oz RB at 1300fps blast through 1/4oz angle iron, I'm satisfied that it would dispatch anything wild that walks in North America.

Ross Seyfried wrote that his "pet Purdey .66 hit (Roosevelt) elk as hard as anything he had ever shot them with including his .340 Weatherby".

 

[Ron LaClair]

I took this cow Buff awhile back, the gun is a .62 smoothbore. The load was 80gr 2ff behind a prb. The shot was 70yds and the ball was a complete pass through, breaking ribs.

 

[Ron LaClair]

Another plug for a prb. Jaeger .62 rifle, loaded with 150gr 2ff .610rb. The bull was shot running straight away at about 45yds, the ball took him through the left ham and ended up under the hide in the brisket travelling full length of the critter

 

[1100 Remington Man]

Some very nice animals there along with the rifles.

 

[JeffG]

OR..., maybe you NEED A NEW RIFLE !

James Forsyth in the 1860's used patched round ball when lots of other folks were into conicals, and he hunted stuff as big as elephants. So bison or cape buffalo I'm pretty sure his sized guns would do the trick...,

You might want to look into a 14-bore [.69] or perhaps an 8-bore [.84] and you might want one in a rifle.

LD

I'm not at all opposed to a new gun! :thumbsup: A fusil de chasse would likely be the way I would go. Smoothbores are a recent innovation for me. I like the versatility, (shot or ball) and loading a smoothbore with prb is simpler , especially when there is snow on the ground. :hmm:

 

[hanshi]

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot the big dudes with prb in .54 and up, including smoothbores. A .50 would "do" if that were all I had but a .50 ball is kinda light for that purpose. My .62 smoothbore flintlock; well, I'd call it almost ideal.

 

[jrmflintlock]

Spin or no spin, as far as I know, has nothing to do with the path the ball will travel inside any given target. Boards, paper milk jugs all act and have varying affects on the projectile. A ball shot from a Rifled barrel would have similar results in those media's as one shot from a rifled barrel.

I think your .54 smoothie would be right good medicine for buff.

:2

Good Luck!