"Best" replacement nipples?

[dsayer]

As usual, lots of recommendations for Hot Shot nipples. I've personally never had great luck with them in my Investarms rifle using BP or T7 paired with a CCI magnum cap. I remember someone on this site showing a video of guys comparing magnum vs. regular caps and showing slower ignition with the magnum. Wonder if something similar is happening for me...
Either way, I have always ended up defaulting back to the 3-pack of nipples direct from Lyman and have great success with them.

 

[Howie1968]

I understand completely, several manufacturers nipples I had to reduce the con size as a #11 wouldn't seat well. pulled them out took a stone to them to reduce diameter of cone. when a cap would go on easily I stopped stoning

 

[Poboy]

I prefer double D's..

 

[Stantheman86]

I haven't used subs in a long time

 

[Stantheman86]

I prefer double D's..

I can hear the crickets with this crowd

 

[Zonie]

Do some subs burn significantly hotter?

I don't have any data to support it but over the years one of the common comments made by folks who shoot 777 is their patches often get burnt and when it does, the accuracy goes down the tube.

A given load of 777 always seems to give a noticeable increase in velocity so the patch burning might be because of higher breech pressures blowing the powder gas past the patch or it might be because the flame is hotter. Whatever the reason, I haven't heard people complaining about Pyrodex or the other synthetic powders burning their patches.

 

[arcticap]

A search for information about Treso nipples made from Ampco alloy led me to a video about how to fix an ill-fitting Treso nipple.
According to Idahoron's video, a standard nipple wrench will not fit the Treso nipple flats because they are too wide.
So the nipple flats needed to be filed down to fit his wrench.
And the nipple cone was much too loose to securely hold the #11 caps in place that he uses.
So he made this video to show how to bump up the lip of the Treso nipple cone to create a better friction fit for his #11 caps.
He also measured how much smaller the Treso flash hole is compared to Hot Shot nipples [ .198 vs. .213].
He was replacing nipples on a TC Hawken and Renegade that he usually installs Hot Shots nipples on.

 

[Zonie]

I'll assume the sneaky decimal point in your values of .198 vs .213 jumped around a bit and you actually meant for it to say .0198 and .0213? .198 is a little bigger than 3/16".

The hole size he mentioned in the video was .028 for the Ampco and he ballparked .035 for other nipples.

The holes I've checked over the years on new nipples has often been .028 and they work fine for me with both real black powder and with Pyrodex.

Ampco by the way is a company that specializes in making copper based brass alloys that are hard and resistant to heat and corrosion.
They contain metals like aluminum, nickle, cobalt, manganese just to name a few things not normally found in regular brass alloys.
I've never figured out which one of their alloys these nipples are made from but they do have an excellent reputation for long lives.

 

[longcruise]

Nipples wear out, the small orifice get larger over time. A worn nipple on a rifle may result in loss of accuracy, a change in point of impact, and with heavier charges, the hammer may start rebounding to half cock. Personally, I have found things going south after as few as two to four outings shooting 45 caliber paper patched conicals (400 plus grains) over 80 to 120 grains of powder. Failure mode is an enlarged office in the nipple.

That's a very real problem. I found when shooting conicals in a .50 with 80 to 100 grains that the flash holes would enlarge with as few as 40 or 50 shots. Much more than that and the hammeer would be rebounded to the cock position.

There is a reason why the long range ML shooters use platinum lined nipples!

As for my favorite, I use Treso if they can be gotten to fit. Otherwise stainless.

 

[Rifleman1776]

That vid is misleading. Lot of fuss and bother that can be avoided by just tossing the Treso and installing Hot Shots. His claim the smaller flash opening of the HS can cause ignition problems is the opposite of reality. The inventor of the HS was Dan Pawlak. Dan was the inventor of Pyrodex. He was also a genuine rocket scientist specializing in propellants and squeezing the most thrust out of a rocket engine. When he heard reports of Pyrodex being hard to ignite he designed the HS nipple using his rocket engine expertise to gain the most fire from the cap to the charge. Personally, I accept that he knew what he was doing when he made the HS nipple. I have found them unfailingly reliable in use.

 

[FishDFly]

Maybe someone will do a test comparing all the different nipples to determine if one is actually better than the others.

I use all of them and cannot see any real difference when shooting black powder.

 

[arcticap]

I'll assume the sneaky decimal point in your values of .198 vs .213 jumped around a bit and you actually meant for it to say .0198 and .0213? .198 is a little bigger than 3/16".

The hole size he mentioned in the video was .028 for the Ampco and he ballparked .035 for other nipples..

Thanks for the correction Zonie.
I went to the wrong part of video when typing those figures.
The figures I posted were comparative measurements of the nipple flats that showed why the nipple wrench wouldn't fit the Treso.

 

[Griz44Mag]

As usual, lots of recommendations for Hot Shot nipples. I've personally never had great luck with them in my Investarms rifle using BP or T7 paired with a CCI magnum cap. I remember someone on this site showing a video of guys comparing magnum vs. regular caps and showing slower ignition with the magnum. Wonder if something similar is happening for me...
Either way, I have always ended up defaulting back to the 3-pack of nipples direct from Lyman and have great success with them.

The way it was explained to me was that the magnum caps burned longer, but not actually hotter or with more force. Seems like burning longer would mean less force, just a longer burn. I have never had any issues with standard CCI caps.

 

[arcticap]

The way it was explained to me was that the magnum caps burned longer, but not actually hotter or with more force. Seems like burning longer would mean less force, just a longer burn. I have never had any issues with standard CCI caps.

The #11 magnum caps do produce higher temperatures and slightly more hot gases.

On page 83 of Dave Ehrig's book "Muzzleloading for Deer & Turkey", he lists some information on percussion caps and primers.

#11 standard cap - 6.53 cc of gas at 3,024 degrees F when fired.

#11 magnum cap - 7.59 cc of gas at 3,717 degrees F when fired.

U.S. #2 musket cap - 14.36 cc of gas at 3,717 degrees F when fired.

#209 shotgun primer - 21.98 cc of gas at 3,024 degrees F when fired.

#200 rifle primer - 11.68 cc of gas at 3,024 degrees F when fired.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I have seen the 209 adapters for sale, but not a 200 rifle primer adapter. The 209 adapters are bulky and ugly.
But since I have no issues with the CCI caps, I see no reason to change out the factory designed ignition system. Most folks that I having issues with caps are burning subs. I burn only real black powder.

 

[FishDFly]

Another to favorites and to be filed.

 

[arcticap]

I have seen the 209 adapters for sale, but not a 200 rifle primer adapter. The 209 adapters are bulky and ugly.
But since I have no issues with the CCI caps, I see no reason to change out the factory designed ignition system. Most folks that I having issues with caps are burning subs. I burn only real black powder.

Accra-shot used to make adapters for small rifle primers but have since switched to making them for 209's.
Perhaps it's also because alternative primers are less expensive and not always available when needed.

 

[Danny Ross]

The Hot Shot nipple was designed to put more spark into the chamber. Black Powder Substitutes have a much higher ignition point than Real Black Powder and these nipples allow more spark to reach the powder to set it off. Track of the Wolf carries a variety of threads for these nipples. Around here any more all I can find is 1/4x28, so I buy the ones I need for my Lyman rifles from them. At least in my usage they seem to be long lasting nipple. My attitude, these nipples using Number 11 caps consistently detonated Pryodex when I used it. They give me that much more confidence and absolutely no worries using them and Number 11 caps detonating real Black Powder when I am hunting. Do I need them compared to standard nipple to set off Black Powder, no. But confidence is everything when pulling the trigger on a deer. DANNY

 

[Dibbuk]

Girlfriend just asked what I am reading, and I told her it was a discussion about pierced nipples, and hole sizes. Now I am getting odd looks.......

 

[rodwha]

Girlfriend just asked what I am reading, and I told her it was a discussion about pierced nipples, and hole sizes. Now I am getting odd looks.......

My wife was like that as well. The talk of balls and nipples was one thing, but once lubes and orifices were mentioned the looks weren’t so much sideways glances. Now she realizes it’s just BP porn...