Bess & Charleville disassembly & deep cleaning

[PluggedNickel]

https://cincinnatisar.org/2017/12/28/cleaning-a-flintlock-musket/
I posted here even though smoothbores, because lock cleaning is the same. I can post or link to Smoothbote forum!

 

[PluggedNickel]

https://cincinnatisar.org/2017/12/28/cleaning-a-flintlock-musket/
Great article from the SAR! Good photos too!

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Unfortunately, the author promotes a few really bad ideas. First, never take lock bolts out and then "wiggle the lock" until it pulls out of the mortice. Instead, unscrew the lock bolts, and then tap the heads lightly to push the lock out of the mortice. That way, it never wears the edges of the mortice. Second, on a Bess, the barrel pins should be tapped from the lock side and reinserted from the sideplate side. No need to mark the stock to identify them because it is easy to see which pins hold the ramrod pipes and those that anchor the barrel. Moreover, grind the barrel pins a little short so they are recessed into the wood on the lock side when inserted. The pin hole will serve as a guide for your punch preventing it from denting the wood when tapping them out. Do not bother drying a lock with air pressure. Simply after washing, spray it with a water dispersant like WD-40 or Ballistol. Don't worry one whit about getting the dispersant on the frizzen. Wipe off as much excess oil as you can. Then put a few drops of gun oil on the internal parts and where the frizzen touches its spring. Wipe down your trigger and barrel with a rag containing a little gun oil and at least once a year, rub the bottom of the barrel with beeswax. Do not use Brasso, which eventually abrades away the surface of the metal. Use a polish like Simachrome. If you wish to see the components of a Pedersoli Brown Bess completely disassembled, use the search function to find my thread "Reworking a Pedersoli Brown Bess"

dave

 

[Grenadier1758]

Thank you Dave for speaking to the deep cleaning process from an experienced gun builder and shooter.

Maintenance of our muskets is necessary for our long-term use. We do need to know the correct procedures and frequency of such cleaning.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Good post Dave. Unfortunately, I had a bad experience when a 'gunsmith' wanted to examine my BB to see how it was assembled. When I had built it from the Navy Arms kit I made barrel pins from brazing rod and ground them to a taper then inserted from the right (lock) side. To remove the 'gunsmith' drove them out to the left. Of course this cause splintering. He did other things also. Only reason I didn't smash the gun over his head was because he was a disabled Viet Nam veteran and I had respect/sympathy for that. Lesson: be very careful who you let work on your guns.

 

[Grenadier1758]

My practice is that pins, wedges and dove tails are installed in the same direction as the lock bolts. That way I have a built in reference as how to drive the pins out. I admit it is less important for wedges as the head will tell the disassembler which way to drive the wedge but the pins and dovetails should follow a common procedure.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

You can find the silliest stuff on the net. DON"T remove your bess barrel to clean it, here is no reason to. DON'T take the cock off of your lock either. In 30+ years of shooting flintlocks I have never acquired "grit" behind the cock. Sillyness.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have never acquired "grit" behind the cock

Same here. I clean my lock innards the same way the original mountain men did. I squirt them with carburetor/brake cleaner.

 

[PluggedNickel]

Hi,
Unfortunately, the author promotes a few really bad ideas. First, never take lock bolts out and then "wiggle the lock" until it pulls out of the mortice. Instead, unscrew the lock bolts, and then tap the heads lightly to push the lock out of the mortice. That way, it never wears the edges of the mortice. Second, on a Bess, the barrel pins should be tapped from the lock side and reinserted from the sideplate side. No need to mark the stock to identify them because it is easy to see which pins hold the ramrod pipes and those that anchor the barrel. Moreover, grind the barrel pins a little short so they are recessed into the wood on the lock side when inserted. The pin hole will serve as a guide for your punch preventing it from denting the wood when tapping them out. Do not bother drying a lock with air pressure. Simply after washing, spray it with a water dispersant like WD-40 or Ballistol. Don't worry one whit about getting the dispersant on the frizzen. Wipe off as much excess oil as you can. Then put a few drops of gun oil on the internal parts and where the frizzen touches its spring. Wipe down your trigger and barrel with a rag containing a little gun oil and at least once a year, rub the bottom of the barrel with beeswax. Do not use Brasso, which eventually abrades away the surface of the metal. Use a polish like Simachrome. If you wish to see the components of a Pedersoli Brown Bess completely disassembled, use the search function to find my thread "Reworking a Pedersoli Brown Bess"

dave

Yes, you are correct about how to remove the lock. That is exactly the correct way to do it. There are still some good pictures and info for newbies in the article. Thanks for the comments. Always, appreciated! It was 2.32AM when I posted the link, so I didn't take time to disagree with any of it. I use Renaissance Wax on all my gun externals. And I use WD40 to chase away moisture. For crude softening I use Jojoba Oil.

 

[PluggedNickel]

dave_person's Great reply from Smoothbore forum! Great example of constructive criticism! Take what you will, and disregard the rest. YMMV!

"Hi,
Unfortunately, the author promotes a few really bad ideas. First, never take lock bolts out and then "wiggle the lock" until it pulls out of the mortice. Instead, unscrew the lock bolts, and then tap the heads lightly to push the lock out of the mortice. That way, it never wears the edges of the mortice. Second, on a Bess, the barrel pins should be tapped from the lock side and reinserted from the sideplate side. No need to mark the stock to identify them because it is easy to see which pins hold the ramrod pipes and those that anchor the barrel. Moreover, grind the barrel pins a little short so they are recessed into the wood on the lock side when inserted. The pin hole will serve as a guide for your punch preventing it from denting the wood when tapping them out. Do not bother drying a lock with air pressure. Simply after washing, spray it with a water dispersant like WD-40 or Ballistol. Don't worry one whit about getting the dispersant on the frizzen. Wipe off as much excess oil as you can. Then put a few drops of gun oil on the internal parts and where the frizzen touches its spring. Wipe down your trigger and barrel with a rag containing a little gun oil and at least once a year, rub the bottom of the barrel with beeswax. Do not use Brasso, which eventually abrades away the surface of the metal. Use a polish like Simachrome. If you wish to see the components of a Pedersoli Brown Bess completely disassembled, use the search function to find my thread "Reworking a Pedersoli Brown Bess"
dave"

 

[Grenadier1758]

Also read Dave Person's response in the smoothbore forum.

 

[PluggedNickel]

Note excess grease in area of pan, vent, it was on barrel by vent as well.

Note tool marks and scratches on lock plate near sear and sear spring. Say, is that crude/soot, gunk on the Cock? Bet I find it's dirty too once I remove. Easy to remove, remove screw, put brass punch into tumbler srew hole, tap off, careful of threads. NEVER pry on the Cock!

Note grease on barrel around pan and vent! Lots of black dirt/soot too!

See that black stuff on the paper towels?

Barrel had rust preventive oil all around when I wiped it down. It will get waxed, along with the stock. Some was on the wood as well.

Barrel spring in mortise.

This lock is going to get tuned, polished, and treated, then lubed and reassembled. It needs some polishing. Pan will be polished as well. Charleville's are so much easier to deep clean and lube than the Bess! Most people rarely, if ever disassemble the Bess, because the pins and barrel tenons can wear from it. It is also much easier to mar the stock with a punch, although as others have suggested, shortening the pins so the punch has a bit of a recess to keep it in place can help. It took me about 15 minutes to disassemble and wipe down, after getting set up and tools. Took my time, and took pictures. I always do. Now the real work starts.

 

[PluggedNickel]

A great big thank you to FlinterNick for coaching/schooling me on some of this stuff. Others as well, Grenadier1758, Loyalist Dave, and many more.
Note grease near vent, and pan. Dirt on Cock.

File, tool marks on lock plate. Not polished either! We can easily fix that.

Barrel was coated with rust preventive oil. Barrel bands were dirty with soot/grease. Stock had some oil on the barrel channel as well.
All wiped down now.

Barrel spring in mortise.

Stock and barrel will be de-greased/de-oiled and waxed. Using some wax in the screw holes will help keep stock wood from deteriorating if oil/water or solvent gets in there. Lock plate and internals will be cleaned, polished, lubed and reassembled. Pan will be polished. It is as cast, rough. If you don't think any of this is necessary, don't do it. Your gun, your choice. No harm was done to the wood, mortise, screws in this disassembly. Use the right screw drivers. Take your time. Enjoy!

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I think you're getting a little carried away. Winter time idleness?

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

You're not going to get any measurable improvement in performance by polishing the inside of the lock plate on your Charleville, or Brown Bess for that matter. When disassembling your lock, and I see no reason to do so unless there is a real problem, and you don't have one, start by removing the mainspring and sear spring, then take off the bridle and cock screw. Then take a punch the same size as the square tumbler shaft and punch out the tumbler. If you use a punch that fits inside the tumbler screw hole you risk leaving the square part of the tumbler inside the cock, I speak from experience on this. Chambers recommends a punch the same size as the shaft too.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

If your lock is properly inlet it will never get dirty on the inside and should never need disassembled unless there is a mechanical problem.

 

[PluggedNickel]

You're not going to get any measurable improvement in performance by polishing the inside of the lock plate your Charleville, or Brown Bess for that matter. When disassembling your lock, and I see no reason to do so unless there is a real problem, and you don't, start by removing the mainspring and sear spring, then take off the bridle and cock screw. Then take a punch the same size as the square tumbler shaft and punch out the tumbler. If you use a punch that fits inside the tumbler screw hole you risk leaving the square part of the tumbler inside the cock, I speak from experience on this. Chambers recommends a punch the same size as the shaft too.

Noted!

 

[PluggedNickel]

I think you're getting a little carried away. Winter time idleness?

Nay, I always disassemble and clean, polish and lube my guns. I wax them as well. Pays off in the long run. Besides if I screw something up I can always get replacement parts. I check into that and the cost before I tear into a project. You might be surprised at how much smoother a tuned lock will be. The polishing alone makes a big difference. And more importantly it greatly reduce metal to metal wear over time. To each his own though. Most don't bother. Also, getting that storage oil off the barrel channel will keep that wood from soaking it up and deteriorating. Waxing the barrel channel will help with that. I may at a later time even bed the barrel. Pedersoli uses great wood on their guns, but those fore-stocks are dainty and easily cracked. Bedding strengthens them, and generally won't hurt accuracy either.

 

[PluggedNickel]

Hi,
Unfortunately, the author promotes a few really bad ideas. First, never take lock bolts out and then "wiggle the lock" until it pulls out of the mortice. Instead, unscrew the lock bolts, and then tap the heads lightly to push the lock out of the mortice. That way, it never wears the edges of the mortice. Second, on a Bess, the barrel pins should be tapped from the lock side and reinserted from the sideplate side. No need to mark the stock to identify them because it is easy to see which pins hold the ramrod pipes and those that anchor the barrel. Moreover, grind the barrel pins a little short so they are recessed into the wood on the lock side when inserted. The pin hole will serve as a guide for your punch preventing it from denting the wood when tapping them out. Do not bother drying a lock with air pressure. Simply after washing, spray it with a water dispersant like WD-40 or Ballistol. Don't worry one whit about getting the dispersant on the frizzen. Wipe off as much excess oil as you can. Then put a few drops of gun oil on the internal parts and where the frizzen touches its spring. Wipe down your trigger and barrel with a rag containing a little gun oil and at least once a year, rub the bottom of the barrel with beeswax. Do not use Brasso, which eventually abrades away the surface of the metal. Use a polish like Simachrome. If you wish to see the components of a Pedersoli Brown Bess completely disassembled, use the search function to find my thread "Reworking a Pedersoli Brown Bess"

dave

I did check out your thread on the Brown Bess Dave! Nicely done! Great post, and great pictures as well. Thanks for the tips.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Pluggednickle,
Good on you for working over your gun and working on the lock. A well functioning lock is a safety feature. I urge you to review my thread on reworking a Pedersoli Brown Bess because in the series I describe tuning the Bess lock and how to improve the geometry. Certainly, your French lock is different but the principles still apply. I also urge you to paint the barrel channel with a varnish thin coating of AcraGlas. The coating will seal the barrel channel and add considerably to the strength of the forestock. Just make sure you scrape a little space (very little needed) in the channel for the coating. It looks like you have a nice musket and well worth any efforts you make to keep in tip-top shape.

dave