Berks County Rifle

[OldRust]

Good morning,

I’ve been very fortunate lately to run into several attic find longguns. Broken and relics but very worthwhile to restore. This one looks to be of the Berks County School, possibly a Henry Mauger from the Revolutionary and War of 1812 timeframe. The converted from flintlock percussion lock is marked with the maker or supplier T Shorthouse. A gentleman on another forum I belong to let me know that a museum in Florida has a T Shorthouse lock in their collection. I have read that Henry Mauger did not make many if any of his own locks like many long gun builders of the time.

The barrel also has an A . K engraving on the top flat.

I am doing my due diligence searching for information on T Shorthouse locks and an A . K as a possible gunsmith or gunbuilder and thought I would share to see if the folks on the forum may have any thoughts or information. Please see the attached photos.

Thanks

O.R.

 

[64Springer]

You have your work cut out.

Good on you for wanting to resurrect her.

 

[rich pierce]

Great find!

 

[poker]

Ive heard of AK actually I think it was AK47. Seriously though, thats a sweet looking piece and should really be interesting to see when you get her restored!

 

[Kansas Jake]

Wow, I wouldn’t know where to start but …

 

[morehops52]

Wow what a great find , condition or not. I only find spiders and mouse turds in attics.

 

[Dutch7]

Love it

 

[ronaldrothb49]

Andrew Klinedinst is listed as a gunsmith in York 1835. Kindig attributes rifles marked A K to him.

 

[OldRust]

@64Springer Thank you I have turned worse into respectable wall hangers but this one deserves better. It’s going to someone who does museum quality restoration’s

Thanks
O.R.

 

[OldRust]

@ronaldrothb49 Thank you !!

 

[ekettenburg]

This is an extremely interesting rifle. It is definitely not Andrew Klinedinst. Much of it looks very much like Henry Mauger's work, but there are also details which display some difference. Then the question needs to be raised as to whether the barrel was restocked as it clearly has been chopped at the breech by probably somewhere @ 1-3" or even perhaps a bit more. I would speculate that the decorative engraving following the K very likely was repeated prior to the A, so whatever that length is, it's lost at least that much barrel, and that engraving probably did not start right at the original breech joint.

The photos are too low-res for me to really tell, but are you positive that the first letter is an A? I only ask because it also could possibly have been the latter half of an M given the breech cut, but I can't tell if there is a horizontal line like you'd find in the letter A.

The triggerguard appears to have been recycled given the double holes, or maybe there was damage there (as there clearly is now) at one point long ago and it was repaired and repinned. Just can't tell.

If the barrel was restocked from a pre-existing rifle, the barrel marking may not mean anything, but I find it extremely hard to believe that someone would go through that level of work - box and carving etc - without remarking the barrel himself. So I would tend to accept the barrel marking as being representative of the original stocker which would rule out Henry Mauger.

Lots of questions here. More photos would sure be helpful - sideplate, forearm molding (I can only see part of it), more detail of barrel marking etc. Very exciting rifle.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

This is an extremely interesting rifle. It is definitely not Andrew Klinedinst. Much of it looks very much like Henry Mauger's work, but there are also details which display some difference. Then the question needs to be raised as to whether the barrel was restocked as it clearly has been chopped at the breech by probably somewhere @ 1-3" or even perhaps a bit more. I would speculate that the decorative engraving following the K very likely was repeated prior to the A, so whatever that length is, it's lost at least that much barrel, and that engraving probably did not start right at the original breech joint.

The photos are too low-res for me to really tell, but are you positive that the first letter is an A? I only ask because it also could possibly have been the latter half of an M given the breech cut, but I can't tell if there is a horizontal line like you'd find in the letter A.

The triggerguard appears to have been recycled given the double holes, or maybe there was damage there (as there clearly is now) at one point long ago and it was repaired and repinned. Just can't tell.

If the barrel was restocked from a pre-existing rifle, the barrel marking may not mean anything, but I find it extremely hard to believe that someone would go through that level of work - box and carving etc - without remarking the barrel himself. So I would tend to accept the barrel marking as being representative of the original stocker which would rule out Henry Mauger.

Lots of questions here. More photos would sure be helpful - sideplate, forearm molding (I can only see part of it), more detail of barrel marking etc. Very exciting rifle.

Have to wonder if maybe this is a collection of parts from different rifles that someone threw together. In addition to the things you pointed out the lock does not look like it belongs to this stock.

 

[ekettenburg]

It's kind of tough to really make any determinations accurately because I can't really zoom in too much on the photos without them pixelating. The lock is definitely ill-fitted to the plate mortice but there has been so much damage that it's impossible to tell if it belongs there or not without having it in-hand. If the barrel is fully seated in the barrel mortice at the breech, then I'd tend to agree because the drum is just hanging there unsupported and the cut for the drum in the plate makes no sense. Far too much gap. Everything else looks pretty right, however.

I keep looking at that box and thinking maybe the maker was Tim Burton?

 

[OldRust]

This is an extremely interesting rifle. It is definitely not Andrew Klinedinst. Much of it looks very much like Henry Mauger's work, but there are also details which display some difference. Then the question needs to be raised as to whether the barrel was restocked as it clearly has been chopped at the breech by probably somewhere @ 1-3" or even perhaps a bit more. I would speculate that the decorative engraving following the K very likely was repeated prior to the A, so whatever that length is, it's lost at least that much barrel, and that engraving probably did not start right at the original breech joint.

The barrel is 37" and straight not swamped. The gentleman doing the restoration believes it was shortened at the breach by at least 4". In the attached you can see the enlarged barrel photo. I believe the horizontal line in the A is visible in this photo..

The photos are too low-res for me to really tell, but are you positive that the first letter is an A? I only ask because it also could possibly have been the latter half of an M given the breech cut, but I can't tell if there is a horizontal line like you'd find in the letter A.

Yes my level of photography is iPhone Amateur at best. I've attached the balance of photos that I have on hand. The rifle is at the restorers

The triggerguard appears to have been recycled given the double holes, or maybe there was damage there (as there clearly is now) at one point long ago and it was repaired and repinned. Just can't tell.

If the barrel was restocked from a pre-existing rifle, the barrel marking may not mean anything, but I find it extremely hard to believe that someone would go through that level of work - box and carving etc - without remarking the barrel himself. So I would tend to accept the barrel marking as being representative of the original stocker which would rule out Henry Mauger.

This was really loosely fitted together for the photos. The lock is converted from flint and believed to be original to the gun. When the broken stock is held together the inletting to the lock looks like it has not been modified and correctly fitted to the drum and lockplate. The inletting of the trigger guard looks unmodified, but this trigger guard statement is speculation on my part and wasn't discussed with the gentleman who is doing the restoration.

Lots of questions here. More photos would sure be helpful - sideplate, forearm molding (I can only see part of it), more detail of barrel marking etc. Very exciting rifle.

Yes it is exciting, if only it could talk, this rifle was in the previous owner's family for the past 70 years but who knows about the previous 130 or so. The attached photos show the side plate which is much thinner brass than the rest of the rifle, a repair no doubt. The other repair that was pointed out to me is the wear plate on the bottom of the fore stock. It is the same thickness brass as the rest of the hardware and covers the tip of the ram rod pipe.

@ekettenburg Thank you for you input and any further comments. It is greatly appreciated

O.R.

 

[OldRust]

Balance of the photo's Thanks O.R.

 

[OldRust]

It's kind of tough to really make any determinations accurately because I can't really zoom in too much on the photos without them pixelating. The lock is definitely ill-fitted to the plate mortice but there has been so much damage that it's impossible to tell if it belongs there or not without having it in-hand. If the barrel is fully seated in the barrel mortice at the breech, then I'd tend to agree because the drum is just hanging there unsupported and the cut for the drum in the plate makes no sense. Far too much gap. Everything else looks pretty right, however.

I keep looking at that box and thinking maybe the maker was Tim Burton?

@ekettenburg Would you by chance have a reference to Tim Burton and his guns ? I have not found anything in my library, mostly Shumway and Kaufman's books;

Thanks
O.R.

 

[smoothshooter]

Good morning,

I’ve been very fortunate lately to run into several attic find longguns. Broken and relics but very worthwhile to restore. This one looks to be of the Berks County School, possibly a Henry Mauger from the Revolutionary and War of 1812 timeframe. The converted from flintlock percussion lock is marked with the maker or supplier T Shorthouse. A gentleman on another forum I belong to let me know that a museum in Florida has a T Shorthouse lock in their collection. I have read that Henry Mauger did not make many if any of his own locks like many long gun builders of the time.

The barrel also has an A . K engraving on the top flat.

I am doing my due diligence searching for information on T Shorthouse locks and an A . K as a possible gunsmith or gunbuilder and thought I would share to see if the folks on the forum may have any thoughts or information. Please see the attached photos.

Thanks

O.R.

How does one just “ run into attic find long guns “, especially guns as old as the one in the pictures?

 

[Stykbow]

How does one just “ run into attic find long guns “, especially guns as old as the one in the pictures?

I’m curious about this as well. All I ever find when I’m rummaging around old places are wasps, snakes, and mice. Thats a really cool old piece. Heck of a find.

 

[OldRust]

How does one just “ run into attic find long guns “, especially guns as old as the one in the pictures?

@smoothshooter Well Sir The short answer is: Luck and opportunity.

I guess the long answer is to be known as the old retired guy who buys muzzleloaders. I have a small local gun shop owner who calls me when he gets any muzzleloader prospects in. He got burnt early on and won’t touch them. If I buy a gun from someone’s lead, I always give them a finder’s fee. It’s only fair and they tend to remember you. The above long gun was acquired this way from a lead.

The gun itself was owned by a WW2 vet who had a barber shop / gun shop. He traded a bamboo rod for it in the early 50’s and it hung on the shop wall until he passed. His son cleaned out the shop and stored everything, this ML, a lot of WW2 European theater bring backs in the house’s attic. This year, 20 years after the son passed the 2 grandsons who are their 70’s are cleaning out the attic and letting the great-grandson pick what he wants to keep. He didn’t want this broken old rifle and luckily for me I got contacted because an acquaintance of mine told them that I am an old guy who buys muzzleloaders.

Yep Luck and opportunity,

Thanks

O.R.

 

[smoothshooter]

@smoothshooter Well Sir The short answer is: Luck and opportunity.

I guess the long answer is to be known as the old retired guy who buys muzzleloaders. I have a small local gun shop owner who calls me when he gets any muzzleloader prospects in. He got burnt early on and won’t touch them. If I buy a gun from someone’s lead, I always give them a finder’s fee. It’s only fair and they tend to remember you. The above long gun was acquired this way from a lead.

The gun itself was owned by a WW2 vet who had a barber shop / gun shop. He traded a bamboo rod for it in the early 50’s and it hung on the shop wall until he passed. His son cleaned out the shop and stored everything, this ML, a lot of WW2 European theater bring backs in the house’s attic. This year, 20 years after the son passed the 2 grandsons who are their 70’s are cleaning out the attic and letting the great-grandson pick what he wants to keep. He didn’t want this broken old rifle and luckily for me I got contacted because an acquaintance of mine told them that I am an old guy who buys muzzleloaders.

Yep Luck and opportunity,

Thanks

O.R.

Interesting.