Belt vs Sash

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Loyalist Dave

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They don't make them long enough to wrap around me twice... And I'm not even that big. A seven foot strap will go around twice, with the ends about touching.. definitely no tying there. I'd need one ten feet long. I may try with a plain hemp strap, which I can cut as long as I want it, and give it a shot
Probably because the repro ones are not correctly made. I have a couple long ones...woven... and I found out one or more of the suppliers that sold them for the same weaver where I had obtained mine, were cutting them in half, and then finishing the cut ends, and selling them. Even so, mine aren't made with the right materials.

I think you hit the nail on the head, and they need to be linsey-woolsey. Linen (or hemp) warp, and wool weft. I've seen several such sashes and they resist rolling into a tube shape when cinched around the waist.

LD
 

Stophel

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Linsey is what Wilde used to make. I have some of their smaller straps, but never got one of their wide ones, unfortunately.

All I have at the moment are some narrower all-wool straps.

I have some cheap jute 3 1/2" wide strapping coming to me for me to practice with before I commit to a proper made sash.... or just stick with a belt.
 

smo

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After the jute is worn for awhile it should work .

Mine are woven, wool with very little stretch.

I’m 6’2” 240 lbs and wear 38” waist pants.
I’m not sure of the length, but they go around twice and tie into a square knot with 10-12” tags..

It’s 3 1/2 to 4” wide..
 

Gooba Jones

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I have to agree that i personally prefer my belt over a sash, way easier to hang my knife and belt bag off of. Just plain easier to use for me. But when I did have a blanket coat wich I rarly wore, I did wear my sash.

Gooba Jones
 

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Don't know how many times I've looked at the portrait of Captain Blodgett, painted in 1786, and wondered if he is wearing a leather belt over his Sash?


Gus
 

Einsiedler

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I’m sure this is heresy, but I occasionally employ my hemp tump line around my waist I personally have no use for wool sashes. I generally have several hand twined and woven burden straps available. One around my waist (if I decide not to wear a leather belt) and one on my bedroll as a carry strap. I made them. They are plenty long for two wraps. And I’ve never had an issue with them rolling as The browband is in the middle of my back. Feels good there. Never had them come loose. And they are handy if needed for something else.
 

tenngun

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Don’t sound like heresy to me, sounds like about average wear in the tall timber.
 

bushytail

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I'm glad I came across this thread. I was always curious about that question. I use to have a sash years ago and remember that it was comfortable, but had to keep tightening it up often. And it didn't hold my pistol well. I have a leather belt now. And it keeps my pistol in place. I think I'm gonna get a sash to use for when I don't carry the pistol.
 

tenngun

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Don't know how many times I've looked at the portrait of Captain Blodgett, painted in 1786, and wondered if he is wearing a leather belt over his Sash?


Gus
Popular during the WTBS. An officers sash was worn under the sword belt.
It’s not something I can prove but I might be convinced they were worn together. Should a sash be used as a carry or tie and kept handy around the waist it may have went over the belt. So guns, knifes and hawks that were stuck in the sash may have also been in a belt. That way had you needed your sash you didn’t loose the carry spot for your waist carried gear.
 

Artificer

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Popular during the WTBS. An officers sash was worn under the sword belt.
It’s not something I can prove but I might be convinced they were worn together. Should a sash be used as a carry or tie and kept handy around the waist it may have went over the belt. So guns, knifes and hawks that were stuck in the sash may have also been in a belt. That way had you needed your sash you didn’t loose the carry spot for your waist carried gear.
My speculation is that if they normally wore a sash, but wanted to carry something heavier like a ball bag and maybe even a tomahawk for extended periods, they would have preferred a leather waist belt for those items. But I have no way to document that.

I used a Sash and Leather waistbelt in UnCivil War personnae as both a Confederate Infantry Officer and Sergeant Major of Confederate Marines. The weight of the revolver, sword, cap box and cartridge box made it mandatory to use a leather belt. Back in camp, I would take the belt off, though, as that was more comfortable and perfectly correct for leisure times.

Gus
 

tenngun

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Well what I was thinking was if a sash was used just being stylish, or was it a practical way to store a handy tie.
A knife or belt bag then a tomahawk, a split bag of some sort might be too heavy but still needed.
I can’t point to a painting cartoon or historic document but see at least a possibility of both worn at once.
 

Artificer

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Well what I was thinking was if a sash was used just being stylish, or was it a practical way to store a handy tie.
A knife or belt bag then a tomahawk, a split bag of some sort might be too heavy but still needed.
I can’t point to a painting cartoon or historic document but see at least a possibility of both worn at once.
18th and many 19th century Riflemen's or Hunting Shirts were most commonly "split open as before," which meant they were open front and needed some sash or belt to keep them closed. Not unlike the Waggoneer's or Farmers' Smocks, this protected their clothes underneath and that is documented. Though I haven't found specific documentation for it, this also allowed them to "layer" clothes underneath in the amount needed for the climate. A sash was most likely more comfortable to wear when one wasn't trying to hang heavy things from it, so it wasn't in itself a fashion statement unless the owner had a fancy sash made.

Gus
 

tenngun

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Yup. We think about the frontiersman gun in hand, shooting bag and horn at side, some sort of wallet with ‘knic-knacks’ stuffed in them maybe a blanket roll on back. Steely eyed looking out through the woodlands.
The real frontiersman man might be found falling logs, butchering a hog ,plowing a field,his clothing protected by his riflemans shirt and the only thing at his side a knife and a bit of tobacco and a pipe.
Most frontier settlements over most of colonial and federal history did not live daily in fear of Indian attack.
So a sash makes makes a lot of sense. Light and easily adjustable during the day.
 

Stophel

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If you want to try a sash, here's a quick, easy, and cheap way to give it a shot. I got some of the wide jute chair seat type strapping. Over 3" wide, I think. Like $13 or something, for a roll, I don't even remember how long it was! :D (I need about ten feet of sash for me) A bazillion different vendors on ebay and everywhere else, they all have the same stuff. Some has black-ish/purplish stripes, some has red stripes. I got this stuff a couple months ago to try. When I got it, I decided to wash it, as I would any other fiber stuff. Oh, boy. When dry, it had no smell at all. When wet... ugh. A STRONG weird oily odor... almost like diesel fuel. Dried out again... gone. I wet it again, and the stink returned. Well, I can't be wearing a sash out into the woods smellin' like a gas station, 'cause it's definitely gonna get wet.

Well, I laid it all out in the back room and pretty well forgot about it, but I picked it up again the other day (dry, so no smell whatsoever) and decided to play around with it. I took it and sprayed it down with water again just to see how it would do, and nothing. Yay! Whatever it was apparently off-gassed itself completely away in two months time, so now I have it hanging up to dry, smelling clean!

That said, I think it MIGHT work for me. I'll have to try wearing it some more, outside, really moving around, but so far, it seems to actually want to stay in place, and not roll up... or down Even on my fat little belly. The key seems to be to remember that it is NOT a normal belt. You don't have to hold your pants up with it. You're not trying to hold up a pistol and extra magazines, you're not trying to hold up a big belt bag with everything in it but the kitchen sink. Pretty much all it does is hold your hunting shirt closed (if you're even wearing one), and hold up a knife. That's about it. Maybe a tomahawk, but not much else. It also should be worn around your stomach, not around your waist. It's not a pants belt or a pistol belt. Pretty high. So it's not rolling over when you bend or move.

Daniel_boone by James Longacre 1835.jpg

You can see Colonel Boone's belt/sash/whatever is up just below his rib cage. Knife tucked in under it.

I'm hoping it will actually work for me, and not want to work its way down while I'm moving around. It's cheap, it actually looks good, though it is easily recognizeable if you know what you're looking at. It's worth a try. ;)
 

Brokennock

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If you want to try a sash, here's a quick, easy, and cheap way to give it a shot. I got some of the wide jute chair seat type strapping. Over 3" wide, I think. Like $13 or something, for a roll, I don't even remember how long it was! :D (I need about ten feet of sash for me) A bazillion different vendors on ebay and everywhere else, they all have the same stuff. Some has black-ish/purplish stripes, some has red stripes. I got this stuff a couple months ago to try. When I got it, I decided to wash it, as I would any other fiber stuff. Oh, boy. When dry, it had no smell at all. When wet... ugh. A STRONG weird oily odor... almost like diesel fuel. Dried out again... gone. I wet it again, and the stink returned. Well, I can't be wearing a sash out into the woods smellin' like a gas station, 'cause it's definitely gonna get wet.

Well, I laid it all out in the back room and pretty well forgot about it, but I picked it up again the other day (dry, so no smell whatsoever) and decided to play around with it. I took it and sprayed it down with water again just to see how it would do, and nothing. Yay! Whatever it was apparently off-gassed itself completely away in two months time, so now I have it hanging up to dry, smelling clean!

That said, I think it MIGHT work for me. I'll have to try wearing it some more, outside, really moving around, but so far, it seems to actually want to stay in place, and not roll up... or down Even on my fat little belly. The key seems to be to remember that it is NOT a normal belt. You don't have to hold your pants up with it. You're not trying to hold up a pistol and extra magazines, you're not trying to hold up a big belt bag with everything in it but the kitchen sink. Pretty much all it does is hold your hunting shirt closed (if you're even wearing one), and hold up a knife. That's about it. Maybe a tomahawk, but not much else. It also should be worn around your stomach, not around your waist. It's not a pants belt or a pistol belt. Pretty high. So it's not rolling over when you bend or move.

View attachment 32656

You can see Colonel Boone's belt/sash/whatever is up just below his rib cage. Knife tucked in under it.

I'm hoping it will actually work for me, and not want to work its way down while I'm moving around. It's cheap, it actually looks good, though it is easily recognizeable if you know what you're looking at. It's worth a try. ;)
I've actually been able to carry a fair amount of stuff off/in my sash. No one thing is all that heavy, it adds up, but is in different places around the sash. I do wear mine high, the bottom edge is even with, or just above, the bone at top front of my pelvis. I didn't think my belt carry method for my new water gourd was going to work out the other day, then realized my sash was too low and too loose. In my outing the last few days my woven wool sash has been supporting, (using my navel as 12:00) starting at 11:30, my trade knife, then at 2:00/2:30 is my native style split pouch folded over the sash, at about 5:45/6:00 my tomahawk, at 7:00 has been the water gourd.

What may help is that under the hunting shirt I have a regular shirt not tucked in and belted with my Lyman pouch. This actually rides lower than the sash and all its gear.
20200528_091628.jpg

Thanks for the tip on the chair webbing. I have some other ideas for it. Do you have a pic of it in use as a sash?
 

Stophel

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Thanks for the tip on the chair webbing. I have some other ideas for it. Do you have a pic of it in use as a sash?
Nope.. but I'm wearing it right now, laying back while typing this! :D Knife tucked in and everything! I'm actually quite excited that it seems this will work! Shows what a weirdo I am. I might get outside this weekend and get a picture of it on me.

I find that I'm preferring it to be long enough to double around me (which is why I need one so long). This keeps a flat surface on my back under the knot. I've stuck a tomahawk in the back, and have been packing it around the house for a while. It has even stayed in its diagonal position, where I want it... which I have never been able to accomplish before! They always swing down and hang straight up and down. I'm amazed the knife even stays put, though I think I might want to lash it to the sash to make sure it stays there when I actually head out into the woods....if I ever get the chance...

The Jute fibers are not quite as tacky as linen, but not nearly as slick as cotton. It greatly resembles hemp. It's not "hairy" like a burlap sack, it's actually fairly smooth. At least after I washed it. It's not heavy nor thick (but quite strong), It's not even really stiff, but it has enough body to hold itself up pretty well. The only other sashes I have tried (many moons ago) were made of spongy soft wool, or worse... cotton (ugh), and they roll up into a rope, and I swore off sashes because of it. I think I missed out! :D Hopefully, it will work out in actual use like it seems to be doing here piddling around.
 

Stophel

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On your gourd.. I have heard of people taking one, or maybe I'm thinking of the "canoe cups", and putting a string on it, and at the end of the string, a stick, which they would stick in their sash to carry it. Not sure how well that works, but it would be easy to try.
 

Brokennock

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I've done similar with my gourd. A 3 finger wide strip of the bison hide split that I used for my moccasins attached to the net carrier, has two parallel slits toward the other end with a piece of cane through them. The cane prevents the leather from passing back through past the sash once tucked through.

I've found that when tied correctly my sash seems to keep thing in place better and more comfortably than a leather belt. The belt is too hard and stiff, the sash seems to conform to the item, not leaving an air space to either side of it.

Glad I'm not the only one who test wears this stuff around the house when new to see if it works and get used to it.
 
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