Belt vs Sash

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Coot

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I don't think that detailed records exist to say one is more accurate than the other. I would tend to think belt as it would be easier to hang things from a belt.
 

Artificer

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Like Coot, I don't know there is generally documentation for which might have been more common, but I suspect geography and the person's trade/work might have something to do with it. It has been said here that the sash was more common in Canada, for example. Yet, Doddridge talks about weaving and selling sashes and garters on a simple home made board loom on the frontier in the 1760's.

FWIW, I'm with Coot that I prefer a leather belt.

You may be interested in reading this earlier discussion:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/belt-of-sash-1780s.115236/#post-1575825

Gus
 

Loyalist Dave

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Mark Baker also documents a longhunter running from a Native, and the Native coming close enough to grab one of the ends of the longhunter's sash, and pull, to try and catch the fellow. Apparently the knot that the fellow used pulled loose and the Native ending up holding the sash alone, as the longhunter was able to continue just enough farther to come inside rifle range, and thus under protection of rifles within the fort where he was fleeing, that the Native decided not to return to the pursuit. :thumb:

IF you suffer from dunlop-disease, as I do (when your belly hanging over a belt buckle gets an indentation on the under side of the part that "done lopped over the buckle-that's dunlop disease) then it's more comfortable to have a sash. ;)

Some folks (as written) like a belt, some find that a wide sash, especially when it's doubled, holds onto smaller items better than the harder surface of the belt.

LD
 

Juice Jaws

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This is another thing we will never really know. All I know is this, a sash looks real cool on TV and the Movies. But when I wear a sash and put my pistol and knife in it , its a pain in the ass, nothing stays in place. But when I wear my belt things work a lot better, knife stays in place as does the pistol. I think the sash was for looks and the belt was for work.
 

Stophel

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Both leather belts and woven are well enough documented. Both are clearly mentioned in period descriptions. It's just a matter of which you want. ;)
 

Brokennock

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Mark Baker also documents a longhunter running from a Native, and the Native coming close enough to grab one of the ends of the longhunter's sash, and pull, to try and catch the fellow. Apparently the knot that the fellow used pulled loose and the Native ending up holding the sash alone, as the longhunter was able to continue just enough farther to come inside rifle range, and thus under protection of rifles within the fort where he was fleeing, that the Native decided not to return to the pursuit. :thumb:

IF you suffer from dunlop-disease, as I do (when your belly hanging over a belt buckle gets an indentation on the under side of the part that "done lopped over the buckle-that's dunlop disease) then it's more comfortable to have a sash. ;)

Some folks (as written) like a belt, some find that a wide sash, especially when it's doubled, holds onto smaller items better than the harder surface of the belt.

LD
Doddridge also mentions that, or a similar incident, and when he describes the style of dress of the young men of his area he mentions a "belt tied behind." Which does cause some confusion as generally a sash is tied and a belt is buckled. But, in other cultures certain clothing includes a cloth belt which is tied, so the terms may be used loosely.
The other term being used in this discussion which gets used loosely, but shouldn't be, is "longhunter." This was a very specific group of people, and a very small number of them, in what is a narrow window of time in our history. It seems that many people, especially those newer to the historical accuracy part of this area of interest, kind of use "longhunter," as a generic term.
If one truly means to refer specifically to longhunters that narrows down the where and when we always refer to when answering if something was used, worn, or common. But, we still don't have a lot of accurate descriptive information on the details of their dress and accoutrements.
Just because we find something more comfortable, or our modern logic makes something seem more practical, doesn't mean that folks in the 18th century did the same.
 

Brokennock

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This is another thing we will never really know. All I know is this, a sash looks real cool on TV and the Movies. But when I wear a sash and put my pistol and knife in it , its a pain in the ass, nothing stays in place. But when I wear my belt things work a lot better, knife stays in place as does the pistol. I think the sash was for looks and the belt was for work.
And my experience is different. I have no issue keeping my knife and hawk in place wearing my woven sash. The only thing that just doesn't seem to work with my sash that does with my belt is my belt bag. The belt loops are just too tight and narrow for the sash to go through.
I personally find the sash more comfortable.

Thus supporting the "use what you prefer" answer. But give both an honest trial.
 

Stophel

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Lots of terms then were used VERY loosely... much to the dismay of researchers today.

I think "belt" could mean either. Some specifically say they're leather belts, others say they are "tied", which one can presume are woven straps.
 

Juice Jaws

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And my experience is different. I have no issue keeping my knife and hawk in place wearing my woven sash. The only thing that just doesn't seem to work with my sash that does with my belt is my belt bag. The belt loops are just too tight and narrow for the sash to go through.
I personally find the sash more comfortable.

Thus supporting the "use what you prefer" answer. But give both an honest trial.
You are right Brokennock, like I always say, read everything , tried everything and use what works for you.
 

Brokennock

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You are right Brokennock, like I always say, read everything , tried everything and use what works for you.
I think, at least for some of us, that part of this reenacting facet our shared interest here is learning how things were for the people of our chosen time frame. I feel some people look at statements about trying things, then using what works for the individual the wrong way. They do t give things a thorough try. Just because one takes a walk, short trek, or goes hunting one day, and a known to be used/worn piece of gear or clothing doesn't quite work out as we hoped, and something else in our experience worked better, doesn't/should not mean to switch right away. Make some adjustments to what didn't work out. Think about and analyze the how and why it didn't. Try it again with the resulting adjustments. It might require an adjustment in how the we do things, like moccasins require a change in how we walk. I had to make a few adjustments after the 1st, second, maybe even third, time I wore a woven sash instead of a leather belt. Now I prefer it, most of the time. The only time I wear the leather belt now is when for some reason I am doing something that I feel I will need quick access to things in my belt bag.
 

Stantheman86

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I have found the plain black Boston Leather "Explorer " belt is pretty much a good , accurate stand in for a standard, 3" two-prong roller buckle belt circa 1850s.
 

Stophel

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I WISH I could wear a sash. Honestly, I don't know how even you 120 pound Barney Fifes can wear them without having them instantly roll up into a rope that cuts you in two. I cannot come up with any way that I can make one lay flat and stay flat... even for a minute.
 

tenngun

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A long sash could be doubled and will hold a knife well. Belts are tougher and can hold more. A sash can be put to work as a short rope, Secure and carry a pack, ect.
 

Walkingeagle

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My waist sash is doubled over and holds only my camp knife in its sheath. Never had an issue with it rolling over into a rope. 6’2” and 157lbs now thanks to the cancer, and never tried a sash when I was 225lbs as we just started down the path of period clothing a year ago.
We are western Canadian so I figured a metis sash was appropriate.
Walk
 

Brokennock

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I WISH I could wear a sash. Honestly, I don't know how even you 120 pound Barney Fifes can wear them without having them instantly roll up into a rope that cuts you in two. I cannot come up with any way that I can make one lay flat and stay flat... even for a minute.
Haven't had mine roll into a rope, but it does fold over and roll a little bit. I do go only once around my waist, concentrating on getting it flat across waist/lower belly, then around and tying in the back. If I go twice I don't have quite enough to type easily behind me and have to type in front and turn the sash around me to get the knot in the rear. It does seem more supportive of gear when doubled. Someday I'll get a slightly longer one. I don't want too much extra tag end hanging down looking to tangle in things. Keeping the knot and tag ends behind me seems to eliminate the snagging and tangling issue, but no sure how effective that will be with really long tag ends and tassles.
 

smo

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I wear mine wrapped around me twice....

Due too my chest to drawers disease, it does roll over ... some.

If I wear it over a period of 6 hours or so, I may have too tighten it up a couple times.

I tie mine on my left side, leaving the 2 tags ends hanging 10-12” .

My Haversack is worn on that side as well, so I’ve had no issues with the tags becoming in tangled.

Both are positioned sort around back, off the left hind quarter... so too speak.
 

Stophel

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They don't make them long enough to wrap around me twice... And I'm not even that big. A seven foot strap will go around twice, with the ends about touching.. definitely no tying there. I'd need one ten feet long. I may try with a plain hemp strap, which I can cut as long as I want it, and give it a shot.

The front is fine, it doesn't roll over on the front (worn on the stomach, not on the waist. It doesn't need to hold your pants up), but just lean a little to either side and it rolls right up.
 
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