Belgium made percussion pistols

[jonathan butcher]

During the 60's and 70's Belgium produced reproduction 1860 Army and 1851 Navy pistols, sometimes under the distributor name Centaur. Those of you who remember those pistols and have handled both, which reproductions do you think are of better quality- those 60's and 70's Belgium made or the Italian reproductions.

 

[Bad Karma]

In my limited experience of 4 examples of the Centaure revolvers vs 10 or more Uberti Colts, I would take the Uberti nine times out of ten. one of the Centaure guns, although beautiful and near mint in the box, was badly timed and had a cylinder gap near .020”... I don’t believe I ever shot it. parts aren’t readily available and in my experience the fit and finish were not as good as Ubertis I’ve owned. If you’re collecting, they do seem to hold value as a novelty.

 

[jonathan butcher]

That’s kind of what I thought. You see them appear from time to time but I don’t think there’s any sustained interest. Also the machining and finish appear crude by comparison. The Italians have become better and better in their production.

 

[Bad Karma]

They were originally spoken of in hushed tones... ”made on the original Colt equipment“ “made under license from Colt” etc. I did have one that was well timed, finished well and a good shooter. I wouldn’t mind having it back again. Otherwise, I’d take my Uberti’s...

 

[condorsp]

I bought this, unfired, one in 2005. known as The "1860 - 1960
New Model Army" as sold here in the US by Centennial Arms.

When it comes to shooting I only shoot my Uberti.

http://1960nma.org/Everything you ever wanted to know about Centuars

 

[jonathan butcher]

Yours looks nice, how does it compare in terms of operation ?

I bought this, unfired, one in 2005. known as The "1860 - 1960
New Model Army" as sold here in the US by Centennial Arms.

When it comes to shooting I only shoot my Uberti.

http://1960nma.org/Everything you ever wanted to know about Centuars

View attachment 42609View attachment 42610

 

[sourdough]

I think some may be comparing apples to oranges.

Since ~2002, both Uberti and Pietta have been producing revolvers using CNC machining. There is a video about the Pietta factory operations these days vs. the pre-CNC days, wherein A. Pietta explains that Pietta used to use subcontractors form Northern Italy, and those parts needed fitting at the Pietta factory before Pietta could offer the guns for sale. I will post it if wanted.

The Belgian Centaure revolvers were made in the early 60's without the then-unheard-of idea of computer controlled CNC machining. I think they were most likely on a par with Gregorelli & Uberti, Uberti, Armi San Marco, Armi San Paolo, C.O.M. (a N. Italian consortium in Brescia), A. Mainardi, DGG, et al.

These are a couple of Centennial Arms (importers of Centaure in Chicago) advertisements from a 1962 Guns Magazine issue.





These may bring back some memories for old farts like me.

Regards,

Jim

 

[B P Arn]

Here are some "before" and "after" pictures of my Centauer revolver. I had never heard of them until after I bought mine about 5 years ago, CHEAP, from a guy who found it in his attic. It belonged to his uncle, who took a job in Alaska. Before he left, the uncle oiled the gun, wrapped it in a cloth rag, and then put it in the attic for safe keeping until he returned. He forgot about it, and years later he died. A few years ago, it was found in the attic, covered in rust. I bought the gun sight unseen from the description, knowing it was badly rusted and only good for an interesting wallhanger.

After I got it, I soaked it in penetrating oil for a day, and when I cleaned the bore and chambers I was stunned to learn they were in perfect condition, and there was no evidence that the gun had ever been fired, or even dry fired.

From the serial number, mine was made in 1967.

This is a very high quality gun, and every bit the gun of my Second Generation Colt 1860, and is my favorite to shoot.

Before...

I did not make any attempt to restore it, just clean it up and use it. After...

Later on I made this holster for it...

 

[B P Arn]

I see there is one on auction right now for only $205.00. Seems like a great deal to me.

 

[sourdough]

Good job on the resto. I like the wood.

I see there is on on auction right now for only $205.00. Seems like a great deal to me.

Got a link for the auction?

 

[B P Arn]

My mistake; it is only $200.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878491216

 

[DickS]

Bought a basket case Centennial 1860. Cylinder pin was ruined. No spares available, made one starting with a die maker's bolt. That is when I discovered that the threads in the receiver were Imperial. Don't know about the rest of the screws.
Looks good, excellent shooter.

 

[toot]

I think some may be comparing apples to oranges.

Since ~2002, both Uberti and Pietta have been producing revolvers using CNC machining. There is a video about the Pietta factory operations these days vs. the pre-CNC days, wherein A. Pietta explains that Pietta used to use subcontractors form Northern Italy, and those parts needed fitting at the Pietta factory before Pietta could offer the guns for sale. I will post it if wanted.

The Belgian Centaure revolvers were made in the early 60's without the then-unheard-of idea of computer controlled CNC machining. I think they were most likely on a par with Gregorelli & Uberti, Uberti, Armi San Marco, Armi San Paolo, C.O.M. (a N. Italian consortium in Brescia), A. Mainardi, DGG, et al.

These are a couple of Centennial Arms (importers of Centaure in Chicago) advertisements from a 1962 Guns Magazine issue.





These may bring back some memories for old farts like me.

Regards,

Jim

GOD! I rely like seeing these old CENTENNIAL ADDS. where did you ever no where to look for them and find them? they are rely great and make your eyes run PEPPERMENT! now those were rely the good old days!

 

[toot]

it was already antiqued when you got it! it would have cost you to have some one like the LOGCABIN SHOPPE , do the antiquing of it roe you. a rely great out come. thanks for sharing.

 

[cowboydave]

B P Arn
You did a fine job on cleaning up that gun and I really like the holster you made.

 

[Bad Karma]

My mistake; it is only $200.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878491216

It’s cheap but looks like a project. For that price, if you’re handy, maybe not bad. Really nice example, cosmetically good, are going for 400.00 and up on gunbroker.

 

[sourdough]

GOD! I really like seeing these old CENTENNIAL ADS. Where did you ever know where to look for them and find them? They are really great! Now those were really the good old days!

I have a good friend on another BP forum who has a very extensive collection of old gun magazines from the 60'-70's (G&A, Guns, Gun World, Shooting Times, et al). When I am looking for information from that era, I will let him know what I would like and he is very gracious sending me scanned pages. I do not ask often so as not to wear out my welcome!

Glad you enjoyed them!

Regards,

Jim

 

[Notchy Bob]

B P Arn
You did a fine job on cleaning up that gun and I really like the holster you made.

Agreed! B P Arn's 1860 really does look like it was made in 1860! I like guns with character, and that one has it in spades.

Notchy Bob

 

[Bad Karma]

I have a good friend on another BP forum who has a very extensive collection of old gun magazines from the 60'-70's (G&A, Guns, Gun World, Shooting Times, et al). When I am looking for information from that era, I will let him know what I would like and he is very gracious sending me scanned pages. I do not ask often so as not to wear out my welcome!

Glad you enjoyed them!

Regards,

Jim

I really like the old adverts for bannermans etc... imagine sending a check to New York and in a few weeks receiving a 1917 S&W or Colt 1911 in the mail? Freedom.

 

[Smoothian]

The Centaures have quite a following in the UK and Germany and as said they were all hand finished.

This is the first one i bought and is fitted with an Ormsby cylinder. Only 50 of these pistols were imported into the UK by a J.Roberts who had a gun shop in London. After seeing them for sale in the US, he bought the 50 and sold them here.

I then got these two, the top one being a rare civilian model with a silver plated backstrap and trigger guard in its box with the original flyer. Only 500 civilians were made, with only about 24 still known on the Centaure register. Some spares are available, new hands and screws and the website as previously mentioned 1960NMA.org has good info on how to fettle Uberti and Pietta parts to fit.

The artwork on the rear of the original leaflet was drawn by John Coletta, (cousin of J.Roberts), who was involved in putting together the bands Deep Purple and Whitesnake.
None of these leaflets remain bar mine (so far) and i was able to send a copy of it to Mr.Roberts after tracking him down to find the history of how these pistols came to be in the UK as he himself did not have a copy.
The two armies are notched for a shoulder stock but the civilian is not.

They are all good shooters!