Beginner (Dummy) needs help

Discussion in 'Percussion Rifles' started by Randomx232, Dec 5, 2015.

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  1. Dec 5, 2015 #1

    Randomx232

    Randomx232

    Randomx232

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    I just got a replica of a civil war rifle yesterday. I've got the powder charge and everything worked out i assume. I just need to ask an INCREDIBLY stupid question. Im shooting 58. Caliber Minnie balls/bullets. I've had someone tell me to use lubed patches and one told me to just use bullet lube on the bullet itself. So im confused and ignorant. WHAT DO I DO?! And please be detailed. Act as if you're explaining it to a 5 year old. Thank you
     
  2. Dec 5, 2015 #2

    necchi

    necchi

    necchi

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    No patch for the Minnies or Maxi bullet type projectiles. They are made with "lube rings". The best lubes are a constant debate as folks use everything from crisco to high end store bought stuff and a gazillion different homemade concoctions.
    Here's a good read with basics for new folks; http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/Shooting_TC_Guns.pdf
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2018
  3. Dec 5, 2015 #3

    mooman76

    mooman76

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    The patches are for the round balls(RBs). Beware of the person giving you advice that has never done it before but thinks he knows. Someone that's actually done it wouldn't advise you to use patches with a conical. Lots of good info here so look around. I'm sure you will see information that you think is conflicting but there are many ways to do muzzle loading but that doesn't make one wrong or better than the other, just different.
     
  4. Dec 5, 2015 #4

    Cowboy

    Cowboy

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    There is no stupid questions here! You only need to lube the bullet. No patch is needed. The bottom end of the bullet is hollow ( skirted ) the skirting will expand when the rifle is fired and grig the rifling in your barrel, thus creating a spin of the bullet in your barrel. If you were shooting with a round ball you would need a patch. The patch would grip the rifling thus creating the spin of the ball. That is about as basic as I can explain it. In your case only a lubed bullet is needed ( NO PATCH ). The skirting on the base of your bullet will expand and make a tight seal so no gases will escape and will also grip your rifling thus creating the spin that is needed for very accurate distant shots. I hope this helps you out and never feel a question is to stupid to ask here. We all walk this journey together! Have a good day and welcome aboard. Respectfully, cowboys1062. :hatsoff:
     
  5. Dec 5, 2015 #5

    Randomx232

    Randomx232

    Randomx232

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    Thanks I really needed to know this. I expected to get a LOAD of comments telling me how stupid i was xD thanks everybody!
     
  6. Dec 5, 2015 #6

    Grenadier1758

    Grenadier1758

    Grenadier1758

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    Its a smart person that knows when to ask for help and when to listen.

    We can be of more help is you tell what replica civil war rifle were you given. Is it a Springfield, Enfield or Remington (Zouave) or some other variant?

    The only lube you need this time of year is the Crisco shortening that you can skim off the cookie baking process. The cleaning solution is warm water and a squirt of dish washing detergent. You will need a cleaning jag and cleaning patches to clean up the fouling from whatever powder you use which is either black powder or black powder substitutes. NEVER use smokeless powder in your rifle. You will need a rust inhibiting oil to wipe the bore after it is clean and dry.

    Read a lot on this forum, especially the saved topics and reference material that is at the top of each forum topic.
     
  7. Dec 6, 2015 #7

    Adui

    Adui

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    I'd say not so much of a dummy. You were smart enough to know your limitations. Good advice here, keep reading and asking questions.

    Oh and welcome to the forum! :thumbsup:
     
  8. Dec 6, 2015 #8

    azmntman

    azmntman

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    all above are correct. However some use a patch BETWEEN the powder and the bullet. I do not. They also make "wads" for between powder and bullet. I don't think it is needed but I'm an addict so.... :rotf:
     
  9. Dec 7, 2015 #9

    nwtradegun

    nwtradegun

    nwtradegun

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    on hollow base bullets do not go over 75 gr. of powder. the skirts can be blown off if to large a charge is used.
     
  10. Dec 7, 2015 #10

    cowrustler

    cowrustler

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    And don't ever, ever listen to the person who told you to patch a minie ball. Folks who don't know but want to pretend to be experts can get you hurt.
     
  11. Dec 7, 2015 #11

    smoothshooter

    smoothshooter

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    Ideally, the outside diameter of your Minnie bullet will a sort of a slip fit with a little resistance felt when pushing the bullet into the muzzle with your thumb in a clean bore. A bullet that is two to three thousandsths undersize is what the experts strive for.

    In.58 caliber:

    Don't use over 60 grains of FFG powder.
    If using FFFG, keep it below 50 grains.

    Most rifled musket shooters use charges in the 35 to 45 grains of powder when shooting hollow based bullets. No need to beat the crap out of yourself, and develop a flinch to boot.

    You can go higher when shooting patched balls if you get around to trying them.
     
  12. Dec 7, 2015 #12

    Dean2

    Dean2

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    Make sure your Minnies are tight enough to stay on top of the powder with NO GAP of any kind. They must stay on top even after being bumped, carried muzzle down etc.. Any gap between the powder and the bullet will cause bad things to happen like bulged or split barrels.

    It is NOT true that all conicals and Minnie balls are used un-patched. Some fellows paper patch conicals and Minnies to get this tight fit. The involves wrapping paper around the bullet, looks like a cigarette when done, the bullet is the tobacco and the paper on the outside, none on the bottom.
     
  13. Dec 9, 2015 #13

    terrydull

    terrydull

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    I know how you feel ... I started about 2 yrs ago and was hoping to find a book called "Muzzleloading For Dummies"

    You've gotten A LOT OF GOOD ADVICE HERE. I would suggest you join the North-South Skirmish Assoc (N-SSA). These guys know more details about Civil War firearms than anyone should LOL.

    The advice I will give is two fold:

    1. Your minnies should be about 0.002 smaller than your bore. Get someone with pin guages to measure your exact bore diameter. Then get a mold and sizing die. For instance, my P58 Enfield has a bore of 0.582 ... and I size my minnies to 0.580.

    2. Put Crisco in the butt cavity of the minnie. The only reason for this is it keeps the breech and barrel cleaner than not doing it.

    Good Luck and Have Fun becasue Fun is the best thing to have!
     
  14. Dec 9, 2015 #14

    Baby Huey

    Baby Huey

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    My first BPR was (and is) an Antonio Zoli 58cal Zouave which has faithfully shot well over 2 thousand rounds. I use both PRBs and Minis and mould all my own bullets. Minis work very well provided they are cast from pure lead so they are soft enough for the skirts to engage the musket's lands and grooves. I offer that some misunderstanding may be in this thread since Civil War participants would form "cartridges" by wrapping lubed paper aound their "Minies" with powder behind the bullet then bite or tear the "cartridge before pushing it down the barrel.
    The paper would constitute a "patch".
     
  15. Dec 9, 2015 #15

    terrydull

    terrydull

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    Oh yes! Pure lead (or the closest to it these days) is best so the bullet can engage the rifling. As the bullets are smaller than the bore, this is important for accuracy.

    In the N-SSA, and many other Civil War centered shooting organizations, they disallow the paper (or anything else) to be used as a patch ... no patches are allowed. Its just powder with a Minnie bullet on top of it.

    When loading Minnie balls, they usually just slide down the barrel with very little effort.
     

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