Been bitten by a smoothie bug...now what?

[Joe Yanta]

I got bit by a smoothie bug that cant be cured. The last thing I'm thinking about before I go to sleep is a smoothie. The first thing in the morning the same thing. I find myself searching the web for smoothies most of the day when I have other things I should be doing.

The species of the bug that bit me is a Trade Gun. I know where there is a TVM Trade Gun Kit in 28 ga, but I want a walnut stock. I really like the shortened Trade Gun called "canoe" that a couple of sites show.

How much difference in accuracy do you think the short 24" barrel of a canoe would make compared to the full length?

If anyone has a canoe, how do you like it?

Anyone like the 24 bore (.55 dia. shoot .535 ball)?

Comments will be appreciated, thanks



Joe

 

[musketman]

The short barrel won't be that much difference when using shot, the choke (none on the musket) is what mostly effects shot, patched round ball groups may be a tad wider in groups than with the longer barrel...

Yep, the musket-bug has a strong bite... :winking:

It bit me hard enough to shun all rifling black powder weapons, subject to change, but that's another story...

 

[tg]

I have a "Carolina" .55 smoothrifle and it is a very accurate gun with ball though does fall a bit short with shot compared to the bigger bores but I rarely use shot in it so it is not an issue.

 

[Rebel]

You might check out Early Rustic Arms. They have kits, and in the white guns, as well as finished guns, at pretty reasonable prices. They even offer a .75 cal. smoothbore now.

 

[Donny]

:hmm:Here are a couple of things to consider. 1)My experience with a smoothie with round ball is it is not as accurate with light/medium powder charges (60 grs or less FFg)than with heavier charges(90 gr + FFg).Especially over 25 yds. Rifle is a different critter, & Shot loads are different, can be shot well with light loads. 2) a 24" barrel will not completely burn all the powder in the heavy load, shot or ball. :shocking: Perhaps not even in a 30" barrel. 36" ? Don't know. maybe FFFg ????. I shoot a .62 French fusil and an English fowler, 42" in barrel, but am not any expert. Next one will have a 46" or 48" barrel.
They shot Fg in smoothbores, they musta had a good reason. :m2c:

 

[musketman]

They shot Fg in smoothbores, they musta had a good reason.

It could be because that was all that was available to them...

It's the pressure, Fg gives an even push the whole length of the barrel, FFFg would reach it's pressure spike sooner, resulting in the charge being consumed before it reaches the end of the barrel, depending on barrel length, the ball will glide the rest of the way out without being pushed by more burning powder...

:imo:

FFFg burns cleaner than Fg, fouling wise...

 

[RussB]

They shot Fg in smoothbores, they musta had a good reason.

It could be because that was all that was available to them...
It's the pressure, Fg gives an even push the whole length of the barrel, FFFg would reach it's pressure spike sooner, resulting in the charge being consumed before it reaches the end of the barrel, depending on barrel length, the ball will glide the rest of the way out without being pushed by more burning powder...

:imo:

FFFg burns cleaner than Fg, fouling wise...

You may be on to sumpin with pressure spiking / peaking sooner with FFFg, but here of late I'm starting to like Goex Fg in my smoothie while experimenting with shot loads. If there is more fouling it's not a whole lot, although I have to admit to not shooting more than 20/30 loads using Fg.

Folks at the range told me it would be harder to get ignition with Fg, but that certainly has not been the case. It is just as quick as FFg IMO.

Someone here on the forum suggested I try it, so I ran across some at a "fair price".
Here in my neck of the woods, Goex FFFg, Cartridge, and FFg go for around the $25.00 (yankee dollars) including tax. I found 2# of Goex Fg at $36.10 w/tax , so I grabbed it up to play with. So far I like it. But if it gets messy I ain't saving much....haven't lost a lot either, I'm sure it's worth what I paid for it.
:imo:
Russ

 

[Leonredbeard]

Joe,
The smoothie bug is a terrible bite. There is no known cure, only treatment. That treatment is to get a nice smoothbore that fits you and shoot it each session until you are satiated. Know this, the yearnings will come back at regular intervals, :: sometimes sooner if work bugs you. :curse: There are attendent symptoms, such as wanting to take ever longer walks in the forest as far away as possible from civilization :blah:, a yearning for yesteryear, a need to play games with clay birds and rabbits with friends, especially in front of audiences. When friends aren't available you may find yourself alone at the shotgun range: loaded, primed, cock at full stand, forearm in left hand with loaded clay bird thrower in right hand wondering if you can toss the thrower aside quickly enough to grab the wrist of the smoothie and fire at the receeding bird, and wondering what you are doing! :shocking: :haha: :RO: :hmm: Enjoy!! :redthumb:
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[Wes/Tex]

One thing to consider is that the term "canoe gun" is a recent incarnation. Several makers have decided this should mean shortened stock dimensions, usually about 12" trigger pulls, which is fine for the modern stature if you're sitting in a canoe (see where this is going?) but can be a bit uncomfortable with stiff loads in standing positions. Not knowing your actual height and arm length, this may not be too critical a problem but you need to be aware of this before you spend the money. Granted, the majority of the surviving Trade Guns are indeed 24 and 28 bore and it's assumed that these were probably the more popular bore sizes of the day.

 

[Joe Yanta]

Still studying whats out there. I think I have narrowed it down.

1) TVM trade gun Kit
2) Northstarguns(?) Old English Kit
3) Dixe gun works Northwest trade gun kit

At this point either the 28 or 24 bore would be fine. I think it would be advantagous to rely on the available lead balls for .54 & .58 caliber rifles. Both Gander Mountain and Sportsmans warhouse has them. Both places are real close for me here in the Denver area.

Your comments have made my dilema easier and are very much appreciated. Thanks

Joe

 

[Rebel]

Well, if it were me i would go with either the Dixiie or TVM and avoid the North Star West Early English. I had one of them recently and although i hear the old ones, made when Curly Gostomski had the business, were quite good, the new ones are not all that great. I have heard reports of the barrels bursting, i guess they make them now out of some cheap seamless tubing. Also, the locks aren't all that great. Even after i sent mine back to Matt at North Star West and had a new frizzen fitted and a new mainspring and frizzen spring, it didn't spark well and wasn't reliable. You also might check out the N.W. Tradegun from Track Of The Wolf. It is a nice gun, and the kit is fairly easy to put together.

 

[waksupi]

I've had one of Curly's 20 bores for about 25 years. I love it. I also had his #1 prototype for the Chiefs Grade, in 24 bore. It was an excellent round ball shooter.

I have seen some of Matt's guns from North Star West, and they look pretty good, but I haven't shot one. I do know he has been doing some upgrading. The barrels don't look like any kind of tubing to me, but don't know.

If I could only have one muzzleloader, it would definitely be a smoothie.

Glad to have been of help, soothing the urge for a smoothbore.

 

[Trot]

I think Dixie's kit is a Northstar West gun, if it is you can get it a lot cheaper ordering it direct. I have a Track of the Wolf NW trade gun and I love it. It is 62 cal though.

 

[Pop's]

Been shooting a TVM 28 ga. for several years, quality is first rate. Went down and watched Jack build it, took me awhile to get the barrel bent just the way I wanted but after that no problems. It's my main deer gun and it never lets me down.

 

[matt denison]

:what: :curse: No, no NO! North Star West does not use "cheap seamless tubing" for their barrels as mentioned by Rebel in this thread. In fact I was in the shop 'till 8:00 last night turning some 20 gage barrels, and almost missed the Green Bay game. When someone says "I guess" and "I heard somewhere" that something happened and then passes that info. off as fact that's how these stupid (yes, stupid) rumers get started. North Star West has been providing trade guns to the muzzle loading fraternity for over 24 years. We've NEVER had a barrel burst. It irritates me no end that after working so hard and spending all my beer money on advertising that an uninformed, ignorant loudmouth tries to spoil it all. Some guys should stick to Italian imported guns and stay off the internet.

Matt Denison, president/owner
North Star West, Inc.

 

Relax Matt, everyone has heard something, and that doesn

 

[Rebel]

Well, i may have been misinformed about the seamless tubing Matt, i was told that by another Professional builder at a recent rondy, and i shouln't have passed on second hand info, but as far as your lock, i know from first hand experience that it wasn't working like it should. And as far as Sticking to Italian Imports, i think some people might be better off doing just that, since some of them seem to perform as well, or better than some so called CUSTOM guns. I sent the lock back to you for repairs and it still didn't spark well when i got it back. And i don't think me stating MY opinion of YOUR product gives you the right to start calling me an Ignorant loudmouth. Seems to me like that statement may fit the person saying it better. I don't want to get into a name calling argument here and take a chance of being removed from the board, so why do't we just say that we both made an error in judgement and not let this go any further?

 

[musketman]

I don't want to get into a name calling argument here and take a chance of being removed from the board, so why do't we just say that we both made an error in judgement and not let this go any further?

Sounds like a good idea, the topic being Been bitten by a smoothie bug...now what?

Let's focus on that... :winking:

Joe Yanta, you will find that smoothbores can do many wonderful things, they can adapt to many hunting conditions and as an added bonus, they are fast to reload... (no rifling to engage)

Smooties can shoot ball or shot, and even buck-and-ball... (roundball with three pellets of buck shot, scaled down shot size for smaller bores)

 

I got bit by the same bug several years ago and it hurts!! 2 years ago I bought one'a NSW Tradeguns kits, the quality of all the parts were excellent. A friend of mine talked me out'a thet tradegun, and I'm currently save'n money to buy ANUTHER kit from "Matt". I liked his service and advice concern'n the smoothie 'cause thet was my first'n. Since then I bought a kit gun purchased by anuther fella from Dixie Gun Works years ago, DGW was git'n ther kits from Curly at thet time,.... after have'n one'a each fella's tradeguns I much prefer Matt's to the old one from Dixie which has the old Italian "LOTT" lock onit.

I will be buy'n from NorthStar West agin!!
rollingb/Rondo

 

[Joe Yanta]

Need some help here. My list is now
TVM and North Star West.

As I mentioned earlier I know where there is a TVM Trade Gun "In the white". I have built several BP guns at various stages including one built from scratch and I am not intimidated of the assembling any gun.

Let me know if I am wrong here. A gun that is in the white would be just that, capable of being fired if so desired. The only work would be final sanding, staining, finish and browning of parts.

A "kit" could be anywhere but most have barrel channel, ram rod hole drilled out. There is still concideral inleting to be done, shaping of the stock, possibly some soldering and concideral filing, sanding, and finishing of metal parts.

With the TVM "in the white" gun I examined it was far from being fired. I placed the lock onto the lock mortise and was in was a long ways from being a fit. I would say a good 3/32nd would have to be removed all around the mortise just to get started. Metal parts still had all casting sprues, casting marks and would be a lot of work.

My question of the day is; how much finishing work would be in a TVM "in the white" gun? There is a big difference between TVM's "kit" and "in the white" prices shown on their web site. My concern is I dont want to be paying "in the white prices" for a kit.

Again, you comments are very appreciated. It has been quite a while since I was involved in BP and this forum has been a god send to me.

Thanks

Joe Yanta