Barrel leading?

[4given]

Another newbie question:

I have been shooting lead conicals in my .54 TC Renegade. So far I have fired about 30 rounds through it and have been gettin pretty decent accuracy. My pet load so far is 100 gr of Goex FFG behind a cast 450 gr Lyman Plains bullet lubed with TC Bore Butter.

How concerned should I be about barrel leading? My cleaning procedure so far has been the hot water and soap method. Should I be scrubbing the bore with a brass brush as a part of my routine to prevent lead buildup? Should I use any type of cleaner along with scrubbing?

 

[cynthialee]

If you switch to PRB you won't have lead fouling issues.

 

One of your first posts here was about finding a mold for a certain conical.
It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to see you advising a switch to patched round balls.

 

[4given]

If you switch to PRB you won't have lead fouling issues.

I will try PRB next but for elk I want to use the big Lyman Bullet and my season starts in just a few weeks! :thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

Another newbie question:

I have been shooting lead conicals in my .54 TC Renegade. So far I have fired about 30 rounds through it and have been gettin pretty decent accuracy. My pet load so far is 100 gr of Goex FFG behind a cast 450 gr Lyman Plains bullet lubed with TC Bore Butter.

How concerned should I be about barrel leading? My cleaning procedure so far has been the hot water and soap method. Should I be scrubbing the bore with a brass brush as a part of my routine to prevent lead buildup? Should I use any type of cleaner along with scrubbing?

I have had minor issues with that bullet and BB, mostly when shooting lots at the range and the barrel heating up. They went away when I put a folded patch or felt wad, either lubed with BB, under the bullet. Later I switched to Liquid Alox for lube and the leading went away, though it still shot better with a lubed felt wad under it than without.

I used a brass brush and commercial lead remover, but the lead was so light I could easily have done with just the brush.

No big deal. Shoot what your gun likes and what gives you confidence. Together, they'll put meat on the table.

 

[jamesthomas]

A .54 round ball is PLENTY for elk. I never have understood folks need to try to magnumize thier .50 or .54 cal. rifle with lots of powder and a heavy bullet. The recoil must be a b*&^% with that load.

 

[4given]

It kicks about like a 12 gauge. No biggie. I know a lot of folks on this board say a PRB is fine. Most of the elk hunters here in the west I have talked to use a conical for elk so being a blackpowder newbie that is what I chose. A PRB would be a lot simpler it seems. Haveing read a lot of Elmer Keith I have a lot of faith on BIG & SLOW

 

[Trench]

When you have more time, you can play around with the PRB. Starting out with conicals doesn't seem to be all that uncommon among new BP shooters. Oh, that, and fear of using water for clean-up. :wink:

 

[4given]

When you have more time, you can play around with the PRB. Starting out with conicals doesn't seem to be all that uncommon among new BP shooters. Oh, that, and fear of using water for clean-up. :wink:

Hey! I resemble that remark! :wink:

 

[Maven]

"How concerned should I be about barrel leading? My cleaning procedure so far has been the hot water and soap method. Should I be scrubbing the bore with a brass brush as a part of my routine to prevent lead buildup? Should I use any type of cleaner along with scrubbing?" ....4given

You should be concerned when the accuracy of a known load (same powder brand, granulation & charge; same projectile; same lube; same cap, etc.) decreases. The easiest, least expensive, and most effective way to remove bore leading is to go to your favorite supermarket's cleaning products aisle and look for "Chore Boy" copper scouring pads (pads only with no soap added). Btw, take a magnet with you to make sure they're indeed copper and not copper plated steel. Cut apart one of the pads, wrap it around a .50cal bore brush, and have at your bore. You can use it dry or with your favorite solvent if you so desire. I've been using it as above for over 20 yrs. in my CF rifles and pistols and it is 100% effective. (Haven't leaded the bore of my ML's yet.) Bronze wool will also work, but it's harder to find and much more expensive than Chore Boy.

 

[mooman76]

I agree with Mavin 100%. I also will add if you start having problems loading after firing allot and a swab doesn't help you might look and see if you are getting leading. I have never had a leading problem and I won't go as far as to say it won't happen but I am kind of thinking after you fire a few shots and get the barrel fouled it would be difficult for the lead to stick to the barrel but that's just a guess.

 

[paulvallandigham]

There was a member here from Florida named Mark Lewis who wrote that he made a lot of money shopping for T/C rifles and barrels at pawn shops--The ones with " SHOT-OUT" barrels. He found that almost NO rifling( grooves) could be seen because the owners of the guns had just continued to use MORE Bore Butter--just like the Company booklet told them to do when it began to be difficult to push another bullet down the barrel. He used modern solvents to remove layers of LEAD and Bore Butter residue from the barrels, restoring to "Like-New" condition. Then he sold the guns for a profit.

There was nothing wrong with the barrels that REGULAR cleaning would not fix.

As for Needing a heavy bullet instead of a .54 cal. RB, PLEASE!-- Do some comparative penetration testing to help you make an informed decision. That Round , Lead, ball, in .54 caliber weights 230+ grains- More than half an ounce!

It penetrates to the vital organs of an ELK, or Mule deer, or Bear from about any angle you might use when shooting these game animals. You have a .54 cal. Entrance Wound, and a ball that expands to .60 caliber and more- even when moving relatively slowly!!! A broadside hit to the chest will normally see that ball EXIT the other side of an ELK!- with a thumb-sized Exit Wound! :shocked2:

IdahoRON, a member here, hunts in the mountains of Idasho9 and Washington, where shots sometimes exceed 130 yds. He uses after- market barrels with shallow grooves, and faster ROTs, designed to shoot heavy conicals. He uses Paper Patched bullets and has posted some fine small groups fired at both 100 and 200 yds with his guns. Even though his guns are quite capable of hitting targets out past 200 yds.,he limits his shooting to 150 yds. on live game. He has posted many photos of Mule deer and Elk with trophy sized racks that have been taken with his "
"bullet" guns.

But, if you check the Traditional hunting thread on this forum, you will see pictures of very fine trophy deer and elk taken with PRBs, too.

I know you will be amazed at how well your .54 cal. RB penetrates, when compared with modern " elk rifle calibers". :hatsoff:

 

[cynthialee]

One of your first posts here was about finding a mold for a certain conical.
It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to see you advising a switch to patched round balls.

Less lead so less expense, less recoil, no lead fouling...?
sold me
Especially seing pictures of critters harvested with round balls. Dead is dead. Thats good enough for me.

 

[robtattoo]

No offence intended to anyone here (I myself am a roundball hunter) but if the guy has confidence in the accuracy & effectiveness of his load, why on earth would he change it?
Yes, we all know that a PRB of sufficient caliber will pretty much relegate any animal on the planet to the past tense. However this is not what was asked about.
Why do so many folk insist on 'bashing' guys who choose to shoot conicals instead of balls? Both are up to the task! There is no doubt at all that a conical is no more effective than a PRB, however there is also no doubt that it is no less so (in the same way that a deer shot with a 7mm ultra magnum is no less dead than with a .30-30)

I agree that there are significant cost advantages, along with many fine-tuning advantages , to shooting a ball, but if the kid can hit what he's shooting at consistently & reliably with enough force to kill whatever game he's pursuing, who are we to argue?

 

[Linc]

I personally haven't had a problem with leading in a barrel. I was shooting lubed .54cal 435gr T/C Maxi-hunters for years with no problem. I never even gave leading a thought. It remained deadly accurrate. The only reason I am backing off on conicals is because of the expense.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Conicals or round balls expense can be cut considerable, simply by casting your own!You can usually buy a mold for the cost of a few hundred projectiles and cast up several thousand with a well cared for mold. :idunno: :idunno:

 

[4given]

There was a member here from Florida named Mark Lewis who wrote that he made a lot of money shopping for T/C rifles and barrels at pawn shops--The ones with " SHOT-OUT" barrels. He found that almost NO rifling( grooves) could be seen because the owners of the guns had just continued to use MORE Bore Butter--just like the Company booklet told them to do when it began to be difficult to push another bullet down the barrel. He used modern solvents to remove layers of LEAD and Bore Butter residue from the barrels, restoring to "Like-New" condition. Then he sold the guns for a profit.

There was nothing wrong with the barrels that REGULAR cleaning would not fix.

As for Needing a heavy bullet instead of a .54 cal. RB, PLEASE!-- Do some comparative penetration testing to help you make an informed decision. That Round , Lead, ball, in .54 caliber weights 230+ grains- More than half an ounce!

It penetrates to the vital organs of an ELK, or Mule deer, or Bear from about any angle you might use when shooting these game animals. You have a .54 cal. Entrance Wound, and a ball that expands to .60 caliber and more- even when moving relatively slowly!!! A broadside hit to the chest will normally see that ball EXIT the other side of an ELK!- with a thumb-sized Exit Wound! :shocked2:

IdahoRON, a member here, hunts in the mountains of Idasho9 and Washington, where shots sometimes exceed 130 yds. He uses after- market barrels with shallow grooves, and faster ROTs, designed to shoot heavy conicals. He uses Paper Patched bullets and has posted some fine small groups fired at both 100 and 200 yds with his guns. Even though his guns are quite capable of hitting targets out past 200 yds.,he limits his shooting to 150 yds. on live game. He has posted many photos of Mule deer and Elk with trophy sized racks that have been taken with his "
"bullet" guns.

But, if you check the Traditional hunting thread on this forum, you will see pictures of very fine trophy deer and elk taken with PRBs, too.

I know you will be amazed at how well your .54 cal. RB penetrates, when compared with modern " elk rifle calibers". :hatsoff:

Yeah I have spoken with Idahoron. Actually I know him from a fishing forum. Never knew he was a muzzleloader guy until just recently. He has been verey generous wit his advice and helped me to select my current projectile.

 

[4given]

No offence intended to anyone here (I myself am a roundball hunter) but if the guy has confidence in the accuracy & effectiveness of his load, why on earth would he change it?
Yes, we all know that a PRB of sufficient caliber will pretty much relegate any animal on the planet to the past tense. However this is not what was asked about.
Why do so many folk insist on 'bashing' guys who choose to shoot conicals instead of balls? Both are up to the task! There is no doubt at all that a conical is no more effective than a PRB, however there is also no doubt that it is no less so (in the same way that a deer shot with a 7mm ultra magnum is no less dead than with a .30-30)

I agree that there are significant cost advantages, along with many fine-tuning advantages , to shooting a ball, but if the kid can hit what he's shooting at consistently & reliably with enough force to kill whatever game he's pursuing, who are we to argue?

I have no doubts that a PRB properly placed behing the shoulder in the lungs would do significant damage to a cow elk. However if I am off a little and hit the elk in the shoulder I think the 450 grain conical has the clear advantage.

 

[rafterob]

Using a good lube for the conical will reduce or even negate any leading issues. Alox is a good one but you can make your own with crisco and beeswax (or similar concoctions). Bore butter is not a good conical lube. Leading would be apparent when cleaning, if your dry patches are still coming out grey or black. Then use the brush. A felt wad as described will go a long way towards preventing leading.

 

[4given]

Using a good lube for the conical will reduce or even negate any leading issues. Alox is a good one but you can make your own with crisco and beeswax (or similar concoctions). Bore butter is not a good conical lube. Leading would be apparent when cleaning, if your dry patches are still coming out grey or black. Then use the brush. A felt wad as described will go a long way towards preventing leading.

Looks like I need the brush. Thanks!