Bag went to hell

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum:

Artificer

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
13,101
Reaction score
5,901
Do NOT use one of these.

View attachment 92062

The problem with the stitching is it was done on a machine and that means it was lock stitched. This hand held device does the exact same thing, only it is human powered. Once a SINGLE lock stitch is worn through, cut or breaks, it is going to do the EXACT same thing as has already happened - all the stitches in a line will come loose/free.

Saddle Stitching will fix this probably for the rest of your life. Here's a great video to learn:

The easiest way to turn the bag inside out is to first empty it completely. Then dunk it in clear/clean water and begin working it inside out. Dunking it in clear/clean water will NOT hurt properly tanned leather. As you work it and if the leather dries, dunk it again as many time as you need.

Saddle Stitch it while the leather is still moist, it will make it much easier to do. If it dries as you are doing it, dunk it again.

Once you have made the repair, dunk it again and work it inside out again. After it is back inside out again and while the leather is still moist wet, use a rag wetted with good leather oil to lightly wipe down the inside surfaces. The moisture/water in the leather actually helps by helping to ensure you don't get too much oil in the leather. Then use a dry rag to wipe any excess off.

Get an old broomstick or good size dowel or even a branch. Use the stick inside the bag to hold it upside down and leave it outdoors during the day IN THE SHADE, not in the direct sunlight. If you put it out in the morning, it will naturally and safely dry before the sun goes down.

Gus
 
Last edited:

andy52

50 Cal.
MLF Supporter
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Messages
1,204
Reaction score
1,405
Location
Missouri
Andy52 is someone to talk to. He seems to be nearly, if not, a master!
Thank you sir I've done a lot of leatherwork over the years and still haven't mastered all of it.
I'll address some of the comments for a little clarity. The original stitching could be machine it's hard to tell unless you can see the backside to see if it has a lock stitch or if it's the same on both sides.
Artificial sinew comes in two different types round and flat. The flat type doesn't work very well for saddle stitching, I only use that for splitting and whip stitch. The round type is better for saddle stitch. Both types will fray some when making long runs of stitching but are very strong and will outlast the leather
If you want to go with something that looks more like linen use a twisted and bonded polyester or nylon.
Here are some examples of those types of threads.
left to right, flat, round sinew, twisted poly.
 

Attachments

Many Klatch

69 Cal.
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
3,498
Reaction score
239
Just to throw a little shade on this party. Barbour, the company that has been making Linen Thread since 1784 went out of business. Their supplier of flax in Hungary folded and that was the end. If you have linen thread don't waste it. Commercial shoe repair stores are having to switch to artificial threads. Just managed to score two one pound spools of 5 ply at a supplier and that was the last of his stock.
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
421
Reaction score
553
Just to throw a little shade on this party. Barbour, the company that has been making Linen Thread since 1784 went out of business. Their supplier of flax in Hungary folded and that was the end. If you have linen thread don't waste it. Commercial shoe repair stores are having to switch to artificial threads. Just managed to score two one pound spools of 5 ply at a supplier and that was the last of his stock.
Man I am sorry to hear that, Barbour is the best thread I have ever used, bought some years ago at a large shoe repair shop in Indianapolis and thankfully have some left. Drag it across a piece of beeswax several times for sewing heavy duty items and the stuff lasts forever. Used "dry" and its perfect for bags and other items and very strong. I use the two needle method most of the time YMMV.
 

stevenjay1

32 Cal.
MLF Supporter
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
114
Reaction score
102
That bag is in great shape! The one any bag I’ve ever had was purchased from Dixie Gun Works in 1965 when I was 17. I have rebuilt this bag three different times and it still going strong and meets all my needs. Here is a picture of what it look like in ‘65. It’s the one on the right and what it looks like now.
2DBFCBE3-2EDF-42F2-BDB5-6175F26B3414.jpeg
2B226C1F-8864-4E89-B708-DA17A6AF0919.jpeg
 

Attachments

Jay

32 Cal
Joined
Jun 4, 2019
Messages
48
Reaction score
54
Location
Glendora CA
Do NOT use one of these.

View attachment 92062

The problem with the stitching is it was done on a machine and that means it was lock stitched. This hand held device does the exact same thing, only it is human powered. Once a SINGLE lock stitch is worn through, cut or breaks, it is going to do the EXACT same thing as has already happened - all the stitches in a line will come loose/free.

Saddle Stitching will fix this probably for the rest of your life. Here's a great video to learn:

The easiest way to turn the bag inside out is to first empty it completely. Then dunk it in clear/clean water and begin working it inside out. Dunking it in clear/clean water will NOT hurt properly tanned leather. As you work it and if the leather dries, dunk it again as many time as you need.

Saddle Stitch it while the leather is still moist, it will make it much easier to do. If it dries as you are doing it, dunk it again.

Once you have made the repair, dunk it again and work it inside out again. After it is back inside out again and while the leather is still moist wet, use a rag wetted with good leather oil to lightly wipe down the inside surfaces. The moisture/water in the leather actually helps by helping to ensure you don't get too much oil in the leather. Then use a dry rag to wipe any excess off.

Get an old broomstick or good size dowel or even a branch. Use the stick inside the bag to hold it upside down and leave it outdoors during the day IN THE SHADE, not in the direct sunlight. If you put it out in the morning, it will naturally and safely dry before the sun goes down.

Gus
Thank you for your reply the strap in the flap or both stitch to the bag and there’s a pocket on front of the bag I was wondering if those need to be removed before I can try to turn the bag inside out I didn’t know about putting it in the water as I had tried to turn the bag inside out now the front stitching is coming undone thanks again
 

Doughty

32 Cal
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
14
Reaction score
16
Location
Missoula, MT
Jay,
As you have seen, trying to turn the bag inside out has caused some more stitching to give way. Maybe some more will give way by the time you get it turned. Then you repair the places that have given way. What's the odds that some more will give way when you turn it again? It appears that all the stitching in the bag is machine and not particularly well done. Having done some leatherwork in my time, my suggestion is this: Using a sharp X-Acto type knife gently cut the bag apart. All of it. Pick out all the old thread. Then start putting it back together using a good rubber cement, and saddle stitching with good synthetic thread ( Maine Thread Company - Waxed Thread, Cotton Cord, Leatherworking Tools ). Put the pocket on first. Then the main pouch parts, inside out. Re-enforce the ends of stitch lines. Now turn it right side out. Wet or dry depending. Next attach the top flap and then the strap. On the strap, I would not use the old stitchholes or pattern. I would start at a top corner, stitch down the side, then back up to the top middle of the strap, then back down to the other corner, and then back up. Sort of an upside down "M" pattern. Then of course the other strap end. When you are done you will have a nice bag that will last a long while. It may seem like more work at first, but maybe not if you have to keep going back to keep fixing it.
 

TXFlynHog

40 Cal.
Joined
Jul 7, 2017
Messages
758
Reaction score
274
Location
Michigan
Don't listen to all these guys telling you to just fix it. There's no way that bag can be repaired -- send it to me and I will "dispose" of it properly for ya. :ghostly:

But seriously... I think Doughty's got it right. Learning how to saddle stitch isn't hard, and you'll get good enough at it pretty quickly. I'd just carefully deconstruct, then reconstruct it. It'll be better than when you first got it in the end, and you'll have some pride stitched up in it too.
 

Artificer

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
13,101
Reaction score
5,901
Thank you for your reply the strap in the flap or both stitch to the bag and there’s a pocket on front of the bag I was wondering if those need to be removed before I can try to turn the bag inside out I didn’t know about putting it in the water as I had tried to turn the bag inside out now the front stitching is coming undone thanks again
At this point I agree with much of what Doughty said, especially about cutting out all the old stitching and saddle stitching it, except maybe about the pre punched holes in the leather and one other small thing on the strap ends.

I think the leather will be fine around the holes already made unless you see a lot of wallered out holes. (It wasn't the leather that failed, it was the poor machine sewing and thread.) If no or only a very few wallered out holes, I see no reason to punch new holes.

As to the strap ends, you DO NOT want stitches going across the width of straps, except at the very end. Stitches going across the width in other places will weaken and induce the leather to crack. You can have the stitching across the end just to hold it down, but the strength of the stitches holding strap ends on must come from stitching parallel to the length of the straps. Often you only need 3/4 to 1 inch along the sides and if you carry a lot of weight in the bag, then another down the middle, but still parallel to the sides.

Gus
 

Artificer

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
13,101
Reaction score
5,901
I stole the following photo from the back of one pouch made by our own Capt Jas. In it, you can see the proper way of stitching the strap ends down parallel to the sides of the straps and not going across the width, except should you wish to do it on the very ends.

1630352746643.png


Gus
 

Doughty

32 Cal
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
14
Reaction score
16
Location
Missoula, MT
Artificer,
I didn't say anything about not using the holes already there, except for the shoulder strap ends. On the strap ends I said like an upside down "M". In essence 4 vertical lines of stitching. Lines running with the length of the strap, not across it. If you think two (or 3) vertical lines of stitching is enough , fine. It's like ah...belly buttons, everybody has one.
 

Doughty

32 Cal
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
14
Reaction score
16
Location
Missoula, MT
Maybe this explains my opinion better. Red lines would be stitch lines. Only straight, not wobbling all over like a mountain man at rondy view.

bagstitchline.png
 

BANDANAMAN

32 Cal
Joined
Jun 21, 2014
Messages
3
Reaction score
2
Just to reinforce what others have said ,turning the bag inside out and hand saddle stitching with artificial sinew would make that bag "bullet proof" [pardon the pun] It is relatively simple and inexpensive. You may want to lightly glue the seam to align the holes or you can buy repositionable seam tape to help... Good luck, bag definitely looks worth repairing with a little time spent
 

Artificer

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
13,101
Reaction score
5,901
Maybe this explains my opinion better. Red lines would be stitch lines. Only straight, not wobbling all over like a mountain man at rondy view.

View attachment 92190
You had earlier written, " On the strap, I would not use the old stitchholes or pattern." Sorry I must have misunderstood your intent on the stitchholes.

ROLFMAO! That was great! Reminds me around 1976 when an older friend asked about the "little green bottles" he saw many folks trying for the first time that year at the Primitive Camp at Friendship. I told him it was Schoenling's Cream Ale, but warned him they would sneak up on him as they had a higher alcohol content than a normal beer. I had found that out the night before. Tom was by no means a drunk, but he could down some beers or ales when he was celebrating. He decided to try some that night.

About 0300 the next morning, when all you normally heard from the primitive camp was snoring, I was suddenly awakened to hear my first and last name being bellowed out that, "I was right about those little green bottles," and bellowed numerous times. I decided to stay under my blanket and inside my lean-to, hoping the other more seasoned buckskinners would not take it out on me for the ruckus he raised. Grin.

Back to the stitching; while one can do that "M" shaped stitching on the strap ends if one wishes, there is no structural reason to do so. A single line of hand stitching on both sides of the strap ends is more than enough needed for structure. Yes, that's my take on it because while I believe in taking the extra time to hand stitch, I see no reason to do extra work that is not needed.

But you are right, it is personal decision and the OP (or anyone else) can do whatever he wishes.

Gus
 

Ulk77more

32 Cal
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
10
Reaction score
3
sometimes when trying to repair something,it looks much easier then it actually is. the side pocket was made first inside out, then it was reversed. at that point, the rest of the bag was made. this is actually 2 bags sewn together using an industrial leather sewing machine.
The only part that can be inverted and repaired easily without deconstructing some part is the main bag.
would I repair it? probably, if I had spare time. If no spare time then probably not. it would then be my excuse to the wife to buy a few more things then just a new possible bag.
 

Many Klatch

69 Cal.
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
3,498
Reaction score
239
Man I am sorry to hear that, Barbour is the best thread I have ever used, bought some years ago at a large shoe repair shop in Indianapolis and thankfully have some left. Drag it across a piece of beeswax several times for sewing heavy duty items and the stuff lasts forever. Used "dry" and its perfect for bags and other items and very strong. I use the two needle method most of the time YMMV.
I bought my Barbour thread at Landwerlen's in Indianapolis last week. Probably the same place you got yours. I don't know how much is left, I didn't look. I'm using for both sewing leather and making bowstrings.
 

Mad L

40 Cal
MLF Supporter
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Messages
390
Reaction score
487
Location
Nevada
Real Mountainmen don't toss something just because they poke a hole through it. Real Mountainmen Fix it, Patch it, Repair it and call it "Character".
A little repair job just shows it is used, loved, and if you prick your finger and get a drop of blood on it, then you have truly Bonded with it!

True Barbour it no longer made, if you find it Buy It, once it's gone it's gone.

I say Take the plunge, Repair it and if you learn a new skill then so be it, and if anyone notices it is repaired and laughs at you - it's just because they wish they could do that to!
 

Jay

32 Cal
Joined
Jun 4, 2019
Messages
48
Reaction score
54
Location
Glendora CA
I want to thank everyone here on the forum for their help in their knowledge this is such a great resource I do believe I will be fixing my bag someone had mentioned to me may be stitching it externally with some leather lace I don’t know if that would be a good option but definitely something to think about I want to thank you all again
 

R I Jerolmon

32 Cal
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
22
Reaction score
21
Yes @andy52, artificial sinew would be an excellent thread to repair the bag. I am not sure that the bag was saddle stitched.

The double row of stitches in the lower left of the bag looks more like machine sewn than saddle stitched. However the repair could be saddle stitched and be much more secure than before.

View attachment 92067

I have one of the Speedy Stitchers and have used it. I don't recommend it. A saddle stitch is much more secure and longer lasting.

@Jay, You need two of the harness needles.
Harness Needles 10 Pack — Tandy Leather, Inc.
A stitching awl.
Craftool® Stitching Awl — Tandy Leather, Inc.
Some artificial sinew.
Artificial Sinew 20 Yds (18.3 m) — Tandy Leather, Inc.
I agree on all points! Well worth the effort.
 

Latest posts

Top