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bang

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The point is not that traditional is less. It's the fact that too many young now a days do not even have an inkling of the past. To at least have a modicum of more modern is a way to include so they can learn the history. Those that are truely interested will stay and more than likely their interests will move. That's why with the knowledge base out there now a bit of reverse engineering is needed. A narrow view of things will not broaden it.
 

Billy Boy

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Technology has actually created many barriers to entry for all the shooting sports, and outdoor endeavors. To hunt grouse up here in N MN
you need a 4 wheeler, truck and trailer to move it, a $900 inertia driven auto, clothing that costs more than my first divorce, and tactical toilet paper. Also probably need your own land, under proper management.
Kids watch outdoor TV.
My gen needed some 22 shorts and my dads’ single shot 22. This tech trend hits every traditional outdoor sport you can pick and the costs discourage many young potential participants.
 

bang

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Technology has actually created many barriers to entry for all the shooting sports, and outdoor endeavors. To hunt grouse up here in N MN
you need a 4 wheeler, truck and trailer to move it, a $900 inertia driven auto, clothing that costs more than my first divorce, and tactical toilet paper. Also probably need your own land, under proper management.
Kids watch outdoor TV.
My gen needed some 22 shorts and my dads’ single shot 22. This tech trend hits every traditional outdoor sport you can pick and the costs discourage many young potential participants.
Yes, that was one of my points. Why would a young person that gets into BP not going to spend 400+ for what can be got for 200. Even myself included. I may be pushing 62 and have been in BP since 18 but I'll never pay over 400 for any BP firearm. That does not deminish my historical respects in any way. Cost to live is the driving force. It will always come first. If you want to instill the history in a person that spends the 200 you have to include them in some way and some will take to traditional.
 

MSW

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One of the reasons that I stay here is that regardless of your opinion (within reason) you can expect to get a straightforward answer to you question without fear of being ridiculed or mocked. perhaps I misread things, but the overarching attitude I get here is "here's what I recommend, but do what works best for you."

best regards, and Make Good Smoke
 

Feltwad

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Has a UK muzzle loader for the past 71 years I came to these forums to share my knowledge of originals with fellow muzzle loaders to some they appreciated my writings but to some where sporting is totally different in the UK than the States I was called a aristocratic snob and other names, so now I to not write in the forums and answer questions .It is things like this why members leave
Feltwad
 

dave951

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I think in general that black powder shooting is in decline and while there are lots of reasons, we need only look in the mirror for a big one.

I'm a member of the NSSA, North South Skirmish Association, and we compete with Civil War era guns (even artillery!). We're seeing a decline in membership and a corresponding increase in average age. Why? We have a number of theories but the common thing I've observed is a lack of outreach to youth for whatever reason. Couple that with political correctness, lack of education in history and stigmatizing of firearms owners and it's a perfect storm. In our org, some of us have decided to grapple with the problem by starting a program working with the Boy Scouts shooting sports. Yes, they have a muzzleloading program but in every case I've looked at, all their programs suffer from a major deficiency in number of instructors and that limits throughput and that limits exposure. Want new members/black powder shooters? Get them early in their firearms experience. Make that early experience positive and fun.

What it really boils down to is what are we as muzzleloading shooters going to do to correct the issue. Volunteering to work with a youth org shooting program is one way and it involves quite a bit of commitment. You'll probably have to be NRA certified before they'll let you instruct. But is that really such a burden? Consider the long term prognosis for muzzleloading and I'd say it's cheap.
 

Juice Jaws

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Thanks for discussing this issue as you see it. What is strange is that this forum is know for historical accuracy, but a few of the very particular folks have decided it was not correct enough and have stop posting much.

Others here are now talking of forum needing to be more accepting to "modern" versions of muzzleloading.

As you can see, suiting everyone all the time is not really possible. And one of my favorite folks has not been seen in awhile, so I think I need to email him to see how he's doing.
I am doing fine Angie, don't worry.
 

bud in pa

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"Others here are now talking of forum needing to be more accepting to "modern" versions of muzzleloading."

I am not for modern versions as there other places to go and read about them I hear. If folks wanted more "modern", could always stick it in Premium Members.
I agree with you, I enjoy hunting rather than sniping with a high tech scoped firearm. I enjoy the smell of real black powder.
 

FishDFly

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"In our org, some of us have decided to grapple with the problem by starting a program working with the Boy Scouts shooting sports. Yes, they have a muzzleloading program but in every case I've looked at, all their programs suffer from a major deficiency in number of instructors and that limits throughput and that limits exposure. Want new members/black powder shooters? Get them early in their firearms experience. Make that early experience positive and fun."

The NMLRA, state and local organizations all say the future of shooting is "youth" The Boy Scouts and 4H are working to get kids into shooting. But for the most part the Boy Scouts and 4H are rural based, smaller cities.

It only works for a very short time and then youth lose interest.

Why?

The single head of household led by the mother is not conducive to shooting.

Kids will shoot with their parents until, they get the drivers license.

After that shooting is not as important. High school sports has more glamor than shooting. After high school is either college and time to get a job. Time for recreation is now limited along with limited disposable income. Another problem is the limited places to shoot. Most local clubs which had a range are gone.

If you do not have the time or money to shoot, shooting is not a viable hobby, especially with no place to shoot. Years ago kids grew up in the country shooting, now that is gone.
They learned from family.

Do I have the answer, no I just see the same question all the time and no answers at the state and national level.
 
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S.Kenton

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One of the reasons that I stay here is that regardless of your opinion (within reason) you can expect to get a straightforward answer to you question without fear of being ridiculed or mocked.
Spot on, the same reason I am still here. Im not as active as I normally am due to other seasonal activities. On another note, one will notice, with time, that members come and go, wether they get mad and leave, need a particular question answered and that's all,or simply are intrigued by the whole sport and stick around for a while. I'd love to know the stats of active members vs inactive members..one other thing, a couple of my buddies that are hardcore muzzle loader enthuesiust and prolific builders aren't even on any kind of forum at all...how many ppl like Ken Netting, Tip Curtis and the House brothers are there vs forum members, that I know of, not one of my club members are here.. Only a few are even on any type of forum.I'm not 100 percent sure one can check the "pulse" of a sport by measuring the online forum activity of that particular sport.
 

Shot deer

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Others here are now talking of forum needing to be more accepting to "modern" versions of muzzleloading
There's plenty of places for cartridge guns and modern muzzleloaders. This place is bout' traditional ML, so let them go cry about it.
This forum is one of only a few that I know that have the slightest bit of desire among members for traditional ml's, (this being the biggest). Don't let them ruin it.
 

azmntman

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Has a UK muzzle loader for the past 71 years I came to these forums to share my knowledge of originals with fellow muzzle loaders to some they appreciated my writings but to some where sporting is totally different in the UK than the States I was called a aristocratic snob and other names, so now I to not write in the forums and answer questions .It is things like this why members leave
Feltwad
Glad yer still hanging around. I do want to remind you that you yourself started alot of the issues that "ran you off" like degrading the sport of turkey hunting here in the US (just ONE example). We have a "National Wild Turkey Foundation" here that with several million member would likely argue with you a bit more harshly than we did.

You have more knowledge than me and likely "most" here so dont get upset when we stand up to your style of banter! have great day!!
 

bang

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So, it appears that the main consensus is outreach, envolvement and education. All the things a bit more inclusiveness achives provided it's maintained to those three elements. Think it's safe to say it's a bit of a different world today. It's obvious that people now don't have enough history education to grasp the need to keep traditons alive. They have basic interests and some can be compelled to this need. But I can tell you you will not continue to succeeding to keep it going if period is it period. There is another site that is more inclusive and I have seen more posts there of people getting into BP period or not than I've seen here.
 

dave951

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I'll have to admit it, I have about zero interest in inline. They're just a work around to make money.

But back to the youth thing. In the BSA, a kid isn't going to be in the shooting sports program if his troop leader and parents didn't approve. Most exposure to firearms today is second hand at the range where God knows what's being said and taught. I'm about the only one at my range who shoots muzzleloaders and black powder. When a family comes to shoot, they'll have the usual suspects but what are the kids interested in? I'll still you, it's that big smokey booming 58 Springfield that hits the gong like Thor's hammer. Oh yeah, I'll talk to that kid
 

jdw276

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This thread seems to have two lives or topics.

One is the number of members in this forum. While back i asked angie how we went from 32k members old system (claude) to 16k now in the new system. Correct me angie, but her thought may have been computer attempts to infiltrate and spread ads and bad stuff being counted old system versus new system people people members.

Folks coming and going for whatever reason. Other priorities, life, death, you name it. It happens in all forums, all venues, all hobbies. We all even change jobs for various reasons. It is what it is.

Two is the sport in general. Bp shooting is old, dirty, members passing, you name it. We don't shoot fast. But guess what, i am around 1400 scouts a year. they get bored with the black guns and video games but they always ask to shoot our bp rifles. We make it a challenge to hit what they are aiming at, they get an instant reward or fail with missing or hitting the steel plates. Just need to keep their interest in the sport when they got their own money to spend.
 

azmntman

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My oldest son used my Dbl 10Ga for his BP shotgun shooting merit badge. They still have that one? I had both sons shooting BP at an early age and one has zero interest the other only likes the revolvers. Go figure? Sure isn't genetic!
 

Kansas Jake

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How many of you grew up on a farm or in a smaller rural community where you could walk or ride a bike into the country to shoot? I did.

None of my kids or grandkids live in such a situation. For them shooting sports has to be a sport that competes with soccer(which we didn't have) baseball, and all the other sports along with a slew of electronics that entertain. Even finding a place to shoot can take commitment of time and money.

That answers a lot.
 

Shot deer

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How many of you grew up on a farm or in a smaller rural community where you could walk or ride a bike into the country to shoot? I did.

None of my kids or grandkids live in such a situation. For them shooting sports has to be a sport that competes with soccer(which we didn't have) baseball, and all the other sports along with a slew of electronics that entertain. Even finding a place to shoot can take commitment of time and money.

That answers a lot.

I have a feeling that will change........ enough said......
 

Olde Goat

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I agree with Kansas Jake. There are so many activities organized by parents that kids barely have time to breath. Its hard to get them interested in anything so "tame" as BP shooting and often hard suburb folks to find a place to do it.

I will add that during one visit by my grandchildren who live in Texas, the boy (about 7 or 8 at the time went into a screaming/crying fit when he found out 1)there were guns in my house (BP Flint and cap lock# hanging on my wall), and 2) lead (round balls) in a closet. He'd been taught in school that both "would (not could) kill him." This is the kind of brainwashing that sometimes happens in schools these days. He did not get this from his Mom or Dad.

Makes me very sad for future generations.

Just my tuppence worth.
 

Juice Jaws

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My oldest son used my Dbl 10Ga for his BP shotgun shooting merit badge. They still have that one? I had both sons shooting BP at an early age and one has zero interest the other only likes the revolvers. Go figure? Sure isn't genetic!
I am in the same boat. Have 4 kids all grew up with firearms love shooting them. Now only one has his own guns and shoots all the time. The others are not against guns, just are not interested any more. Same thing is happening to the old car guys. Their kids will sell their fathers cars for 10 cents on the dollar just like our kids will sell our guns.
 
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