Are we losing members?

Discussion in 'Forum Announcements & Support' started by Shot deer, May 30, 2019.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jul 3, 2019 #241

    bigted

    bigted

    bigted

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    623
    Likes Received:
    64
    This is exactly what is awry here ... the HC Police seem to take delight in informing folks that they are not HC in something or another ... even when it is not necessary.

    We all learn at and assimilate things at different speeds and this according to how much money and effort they decide fits into their real life. Some of us just do not have time nor money to devote
     
    nhmoose and FishDFly like this.
  2. Jul 3, 2019 #242

    Gregory Mitchell

    Gregory Mitchell

    Gregory Mitchell

    32 Cal

    Joined:
    May 4, 2019
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    13
    I'm a few days away from my 58th birthday and got heavily into Colt percussion revolvers and replicas over three years ago. Just 3 MONTHS ago I decided it was time to enter the ML rifle sport, and now I own and am enjoying two Pedersoli Hawkens (a Traditional and a Rocky Mountain, both .50). SO: I found and joined this forum shortly after getting my first ML long gun, and for what it's worth I find you guys to be among the friendliest, most helpful (and least snobby) forums I've ever been on. At my age, I'm certainly not the "future" of this sport, but all we can do is try to introduce new, younger shooters to the game and hope that it takes. On my many range trips I think I've even managed to light a spark in some older shooters as well . . . who have seemed fascinated by my slow and smoky pursuits.
     
    Shot deer likes this.
  3. Jul 3, 2019 #243

    David Veale

    David Veale

    David Veale

    36 Cl. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    71
    Location:
    Three Rivers, MI
    With regards to membership... I think popular media influences it more than anything. Look at the popular TV shows and movies of the 60's and 70's which portrayed mountain men or blackpowder guns. Although I was only about 5 at the time, I personally remember being enthralled by the Grizzly Adams show. Although I hate to think of myself as subject to the whims of Hollywood, seeing "The Revenant" did undoubtedly help bring it back to the forefront for me. But, there doesn't seem to be nearly as much media focused on this subject as there was a few decades ago, and that's the problem for us. Running my small raw-milk dairy, I always saw a surge of new customers when a new film on the dangers of industrial food (like "Food Inc") came out. Perhaps we just need to pair up with a hollywood studio or two... 8^)
     
  4. Jul 3, 2019 #244

    azmntman

    azmntman

    azmntman

    75 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    Messages:
    6,620
    Likes Received:
    439
    Location:
    Northern AZ
    I find you guys to be among the friendliest, most helpful (and least snobby)

    Glad you waited till now to join. We just had a major workover of the forum site and in MHO many of those that were snobs and created havoc either failed to migrate or came over, looked around and "split the scene" (dating myself LOL). To them I say good riddance. To you and the other new guys I say WELCOME!!!
     
    Eterry and Shot deer like this.
  5. Jul 3, 2019 #245

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Messages:
    2,102
    Likes Received:
    741
    Location:
    South Texas
    I think I mentioned this before. There are many forums out there on the subject of muzzleloading. How I picked this one I'll never probably know. But I'm "tickled pink" that I did. As far as knowledge the other forums may suffice but WE seem to have friendlier folks here by far. IMO
     
  6. Jul 3, 2019 #246

    Brokennock

    Brokennock

    Brokennock

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,189
    Likes Received:
    684
    Location:
    North Central Connecticut
    Wrong. This may be your perception, but it is inaccurate.
    I posted an example here quite some time ago of why when person A posts something that is not hc/pc and person B points it out, person C gets all huffy and p.o.'d, but meanwhile person G (who would have otherwise thought the item or method was hc/pc) has learned something. Person B wasn't maliciously "taking delight," in pointing this out in order to ruin anyone's day. And I seriously don't see why so many of you get all up at arms about it. Let person G learn, let person B continue to try to keep the myths and misconceptions that have been handed down for too long now from going further. Maybe you don't personally benefit, but someone does.

    Every time I go to a range with my flintlock and other modern shooters are there, I hear tons of discussion between themselves (parents "explaining" what it is and how it works, inaccurately, I field misinformed questions and comments, most of it based on beliefs and misconceptions handed down for a few decades.

    I see/read lots of stuff here that has nothing to do with my interests, I don't tell the posters of this that they need to stop posting about it, I move on, I'm sure some of it helps somebody.

    I truly don't understand this rift, the non-hc/pc crowd has with those trying to preserve our history and stop the passing down of wrong info.
     
    Coot and Shot deer like this.
  7. Jul 3, 2019 #247

    Shot deer

    Shot deer

    Shot deer

    40 Cal MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2019
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    242
    Location:
    Northern ohio
    Everything you stated is true, but I guess some people just don't fully understand it (PC,HC), but probably could if they wanted to. Although some people might take enjoyment in (trying) to make fights with the PC/HC community.
     
  8. Jul 3, 2019 #248

    Treestalker

    Treestalker

    Treestalker

    45 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,444
    Likes Received:
    419
    Location:
    Arkansas Ozarks
    Back when I was in Mrs. Paine's 5th grade homeroom class, a hgentleman showed up with a book trolley loaded down with Civil War muskets and gear to show us. He saw I was big for my age and handed me a Springfield musket. Well, hell. About 150 years fell off and I was ruined for life. Never much cared what happened in Europe or other history lessons outside of the continental U.S. after that, the only event that came close to matching that experience that year was the '5th grade flying squirrel education' posted earlier.
     
    MiddleJohn and SamTex1949 like this.
  9. Jul 3, 2019 #249

    thehorn

    thehorn

    thehorn

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    4
    You're my kind of history student! I teach eighth grade US History, been doing so for the past 33 years, and I do whatever I can to make the class interesting and memorable for my students. I've made the classroom into a veritable museum with artifacts (which we change out periodically depending upon the unit we're studying), flags, posters, book collections (inc. old issues of Muzzle Blasts). School's out for the summer or I'd include a photo of the room to give you the idea. I bring in guest speakers inc. Rev War & CW reenactors, a colonial physician, local veterans and their wives, and representatives from an international militaria and weapons firm, all to encourage interest in the subject. We watch and critique historical films as well inc. Glory and Andersonville. Our students research and visit local historic sites and lead tours for the lower grades. And as a traditional muzzleloading enthusiast, the thoughts not lost on me that I can possibly instill this passion for the hobby into some of my students, too. I don't say any of this to brag (there are plenty of teachers much better than me), but to show that teachers can make a difference in helping kids to appreciate the past and the artifacts and tools (inc. firearms) that were a part of it.

    Some years are great and you can see that you've kindled an interest in American history in some students that they take with them beyond the classroom. Some still drop by to shoot the breeze and a few have gone on to become social studies teachers themselves. In other years, like this past one, hardly a student indicated an interest in the subject beyond the classroom, which was rather disappointing. (The one shining exception was a boy whose father had gotten him into CW reenacting. This boy was a God send.) Some years you win and some years not so much. Unfortunately, there are too many diversions for kids nowadays (don't get me started on video games and electronics) and a lack of unstructured playtime like when we were kids and would go out and explore the town, woods, or streams and ponds on foot or bike, put together a kickball game with neighborhood kids, etc.

    It's obvious that the world of today is much different than the one in which we grew up and helped to kindle our interest in the past and in muzzleloading. I don't think that the sport is destined to die out with the new generation; I just think that the number of participants in the hobby will not be what it once was any time soon. There are just too many other diversions to compete with. But if everyone connected with the sport shines a light on it and ignores the PC crowd, there will continue to be a following. Didn't mean to crow so long here; it's been two weeks that we've been on summer
    break and I need someone to preach to, lol. Thanks for listening.
     
  10. Jul 3, 2019 #250

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Moderator Staff Member MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    29,648
    Likes Received:
    2,193
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Unless someone is making a complaint about something they show or talk about on the forum, most people are quite happy with the stuff they own. In fact, many of them are quite proud of it and the fact that they have it.

    So, in your scenario, the owner, person A is showing his gun or whatever to the others around him and person B, with good intentions but without being asked comes up and "out of the blue" tells them that their item is not at all "correct", basically telling them in so many words, it is not what they thought it was and implying that it is a piece of crap.

    While this is going on, persons C, H, J, K, L and M who are standing around listening noticed that person A didn't ask if it was "correct". To them, it looks like person B is just trying to belittle the item and hurt person A's feelings about his prized possession so they "come to his rescue", while at the same time, coming to the conclusion that person B is just a meddlesome person who gets delight in downgrading others stuff.

    Person G might have learned something and maybe person A won't take offense at the things person B said but in the meantime, persons C, H, J, K, L and M all have a new negative impression of person B.

    This is why I strongly suggest that outside the Reenacting area of the forum, person B should just remain quiet unless person A asks if his item is "correct" or "close to what existed" back in the day.

    I've used this same technique at the local gun range. If someone asks me about the muzzleloading guns I'm shooting and if they are like the ones that were actually used I freely tell them all about where the gun fits into history. On the other hand, I had a father and his little boy come up and watch me while I was loading one of my percussion longrifles. The father said to his son, "That's a musket just like the ones that freed our country from England." While the boys eyes widened, I just kept my mouth shut. The only thing that correcting the man would have done was to make his dad look foolish to his son.

     
    shunka, TexiKan, SamTex1949 and 3 others like this.
  11. Jul 4, 2019 #251

    Homesteader

    Homesteader

    Homesteader

    50 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,200
    Likes Received:
    32
    I'm pretty quiet here these days. I mostly read now, though I used to be much more active in regards to posts. I've gotta say that a lot of the old guard were fantastic, and would go out of their way to personally help in ways that are almost unheard of on most forums. Musketman comes to mind. Zonie is another. There are plenty of others whose names escape me at the moment.

    Getting homemade lube in the mail from a forum friend you've never met and who wanted nothing in exchange is really remarkable, for example. I for one will be around here even if there are only three of us.
     
  12. Jul 4, 2019 #252

    azmntman

    azmntman

    azmntman

    75 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    Messages:
    6,620
    Likes Received:
    439
    Location:
    Northern AZ
    Yep, Ames sent me a book on field dressing for the cost of postage! Another member made me a holster for my 1849 for some really ridiculous price like $20.00 and another FABRICATED a nipple that could not be found here or overseas! We have some excellent folks here!:thumb::ThankYou:
     
    MiddleJohn, Shot deer and Brokennock like this.
  13. Jul 4, 2019 #253

    Brokennock

    Brokennock

    Brokennock

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,189
    Likes Received:
    684
    Location:
    North Central Connecticut
    That is quite a presumptuous jump from, not pc/hc to "that's a piece of crap."

    Again, assumptions and unfounded speculation.
    Maybe people get their "feelings" hurt too easily.
    And again, the dust up doesn't start till the "we don't care, and neither should anyone else," crowd gets their feelings hurt so has a hussy fit, grabs pitchforks and torches and goes to slay the pc/hc demon. Then it somehow becomes the fault of the person that points out something isn't quite hc/pc, that, "the forum is slow, we're losing muzzleloading participation, and 'the new guy I sent here from my club now has low self esteem'."

    I was initially against allowing modern stuff like in-lines, modern sabots, and the like here. But, screw it, drop the "keeping tradition alive" from the forum header and drop all pretence of being a forum for traditional muzzleloading. Just let it be a general free for all.
     
    Shot deer and FishDFly like this.
  14. Jul 4, 2019 #254

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Moderator Staff Member MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    29,648
    Likes Received:
    2,193
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    If someone asks if their gun or gear is period correct, please be the first to step up and tell him/her exactly what they have.
    I'm sure they will be grateful as will all of the other members who read what you have to say.
     
    azmntman, RonT, TexiKan and 1 other person like this.
  15. Jul 4, 2019 #255

    Treestalker

    Treestalker

    Treestalker

    45 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,444
    Likes Received:
    419
    Location:
    Arkansas Ozarks
    The key words, as Zonie pointed out, are 'If someone asks.' Most of us know better than to approach someone on the street with our unsolicited opinions; Maybe if posters remember to treat others here like brothers and sisters, and remember no one wants negative opinions about their gear posted for all the world to see, then likely the endearing and sharing attitudes that make this Forum attractive will continue to play a decisive role in it's membership.
     
    TexiKan likes this.
  16. Jul 4, 2019 #256

    rich pierce

    rich pierce

    rich pierce

    70 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Messages:
    4,575
    Likes Received:
    263
    Location:
    St. Louis, Mo
    There’s a place for everything. I don’t come here to learn or talk about actual original guns or recreating them with any expectations that more than half a dozen members will be interested. That’s just one part of the sport, and I keep that in mind.

    I do feel that leadership here paints folks who are interested in recreating guns and accoutrements based on originals, with a broad, negative brush. Reminds me of science deniers in a way. “Don’t bother us with facts and knowledge, we are doing fine.”

    And their response to someone pointing this out is often, “yep; don’t let the door hit your backside on your way out.”

    That is why this will always be a secondary site for me. I still visit daily because there’s usually something that pops up that is quite interesting and worthwhile.
     
    SDSmlf, Shot deer, Brokennock and 2 others like this.
  17. Jul 4, 2019 #257

    TexiKan

    TexiKan

    TexiKan

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    8
    Totally agree with the "if someone asks" response. Like Zonnie said, even if the person is wrong, it is not our place to make correcting remarks. I recall the self professed "stitch counters" would approach folks, uninvited, and tell them their outfit is not correct. If the event was a judged, required HC event, it would be a different matter, but to go makes issues of it then and on this form, when not asked, is pushing it.

    By profession, I am a musician and I was a State Music Adjudicator and when I am at a festival where I am adjudicating, I make the critical comments and observations. However, I do not go up to a street musician or a bar gig and do the same thing. It is inappropriate.

    Eventually one will learn and change if they seek out information.
     
  18. Jul 4, 2019 #258

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Messages:
    2,102
    Likes Received:
    741
    Location:
    South Texas
    So far being a member has been one big learning experience. There are some very knowledgeable people here. Some are not as witty or knowledgeable as they think they are, but thats found everywhere.I don't think too many people are smart alecks on purpose, they just come across that way. Never too old to learn something. Friendly folks here too. Miss Carol sometimes gets a kick out of some ( not all) of the replys too.
     
  19. Jul 4, 2019 #259

    Brokennock

    Brokennock

    Brokennock

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,189
    Likes Received:
    684
    Location:
    North Central Connecticut
    Who said it was a "negative." It's just a piece of data, that something is or isn't hc/pc is neither positive or negative.
     
    Shot deer and FishDFly like this.
  20. Jul 4, 2019 #260

    Brokennock

    Brokennock

    Brokennock

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,189
    Likes Received:
    684
    Location:
    North Central Connecticut
    Well stated.
     
    rich pierce likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Group Builder
arrow_white