dukewellington
40 Cal.
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David Minshall said:
Shotgun cert mate :v
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Are preccusions as fun as flinters
- Thread starter dukewellington
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Shotgun cert mate :v
I gotta agree with everything you said, RB.
I will admit that I don't get 100% reliability, but it's close. Occasionally a flint will work loose, or break, or I will allow a flint to become too dull, but all in all, reliability is pretty good. I have even had a clump of snow fall off of a large cedar I was sitting under, right on the juncture of the lock and barrel. The snow was brushed off and any residual moisture blown off and wiped dry. Priming was not changed.
Just for curiosity, the charge was fired after returning to the house several hours later. There was a definite hang fire, but I hit the chunk of log I was aiming at.
I will admit that I had a good mentor that taught me how to shoot a flint gun well. He insisted that I dryfire every day for a month. Then flash powder in the pan for a month, and fire very light loads, 20 gr, or so, shooting for a group, for another month before competing.
I won third place out of a field of about 100 competitors, the first time out with a flint gun.
He also taught me that all that is needed to keep a flinter working is keep it dry, pay attention to the condition of the flint, wipe the frizzen and flint with the thumb as fouling becomes apparent, and use enough prime to make it work.
Most of the garbage that is spouted about what is necessary to keep a flintgun working is pure... garbage. Following the advise given above will make a flint gun 100% reliable. Working out the details of how to do those things is up to you. :wink:
I will admit that I don't get 100% reliability, but it's close. Occasionally a flint will work loose, or break, or I will allow a flint to become too dull, but all in all, reliability is pretty good. I have even had a clump of snow fall off of a large cedar I was sitting under, right on the juncture of the lock and barrel. The snow was brushed off and any residual moisture blown off and wiped dry. Priming was not changed.
Just for curiosity, the charge was fired after returning to the house several hours later. There was a definite hang fire, but I hit the chunk of log I was aiming at.
I will admit that I had a good mentor that taught me how to shoot a flint gun well. He insisted that I dryfire every day for a month. Then flash powder in the pan for a month, and fire very light loads, 20 gr, or so, shooting for a group, for another month before competing.
I won third place out of a field of about 100 competitors, the first time out with a flint gun.
He also taught me that all that is needed to keep a flinter working is keep it dry, pay attention to the condition of the flint, wipe the frizzen and flint with the thumb as fouling becomes apparent, and use enough prime to make it work.
Most of the garbage that is spouted about what is necessary to keep a flintgun working is pure... garbage. Following the advise given above will make a flint gun 100% reliable. Working out the details of how to do those things is up to you. :wink:
Renegade Dan
50 Cal.
Were all a little nuts, we just come in different shapes and sizes. :grin:
I live in Wooster now, but I quess that is still
Conway. I didn't know about this place in
Clarksville. Do they only sell by the case? If I
bought that much I would be forced to shoot it all by myself. That would just break my heart. :grin:
Conway. I didn't know about this place in
Clarksville. Do they only sell by the case? If I
bought that much I would be forced to shoot it all by myself. That would just break my heart. :grin:
Russ T Frizzen
70 Cal.
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I've had far more failures to fire due to dampness and weather with my percussion guns than I have ever had with my flintlocks.
Why did the military switch from flint to cap. Stupidity mostly. The typical Brit enlisted man of the time had the mentality of a duck. It takes a brain to shoot a flinter. You have to think. The other reason was economic...some military contractor had to supply caps and knowing who we're dealing with the corruption in military supply was immense.
1800 to 1850 England supplied the world with snobs.
Oddly enough...the nobility before that was pretty decent.
1800 to 1850 England supplied the world with snobs.
Oddly enough...the nobility before that was pretty decent.
There was also things like wind, rain and other things that Flintlocks don't really like.
Yes, I read the posts about how the owner stood in a pouring down pore and his gun worked when all of the percussion guns didn't but, he must have been around a bunch of novices. He was also very fortunate that he didn't get water into the vent because that will kill a main charge faster than just about anything.
A good percussion gun with waterproof caps on it is pretty much unaffected by wind, snow and rain.
All of the types of things that the military find themselves out in from time to time.
Yes, I read the posts about how the owner stood in a pouring down pore and his gun worked when all of the percussion guns didn't but, he must have been around a bunch of novices. He was also very fortunate that he didn't get water into the vent because that will kill a main charge faster than just about anything.
A good percussion gun with waterproof caps on it is pretty much unaffected by wind, snow and rain.
All of the types of things that the military find themselves out in from time to time.
ResearchPress
45 Cal.
If this was a driving factor, then why did it take so long for the British to introduce the percussion system into service? Surely they would have been keen to supply those poor soles struggling with their flintlock firearms for a so many years, and all through the Napoleonic Wars, with a simple tool for them to use.Hairy said:
So are you suggesting that one of the factors in the modernisation of military arms from flintlock to percussion was corruption. Perhaps it had nothing to do with supplying a weapon of strength, simplicity and cheapness after all?Hairy said:
Please provide your sources on this aspect of your argument as I would like to learn more. Thanks.
For anyone seeking a factual account of the adoption of the percussion system, Howard Blackmore's "British Military Firearms 1650-1850" (Greenhill Books, ISBN 1 85367 172 X) is an excellent source.
David
Little Wattsy
69 Cal.
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Hairy said:
They might even had been thinking about little things like "Ill kill YOU first!" :slap:
Only a complete fool would take a technologically inferior "fun gun" to battle when a superior preformer is as redillay avialable...
Now back to the REAL question of this thread.......
ResearchPress
45 Cal.
You can have more fun at 1000 yards with a percussion rifle than a flintlock! :grin:Wattsy said:
David
Zonie said:
Yep, the trick to keeping a flintgun shooting in those conditions is to protect the muzzle while loading, and the prime afterward.
Zonie said:
Some may have been novices, but at least one was a very experienced shooter. There isn't much that even a very experienced cap shooter can do to prevent or eliminate condensation from forming in the flash channel without removing the nipple and fiddling with pipe cleaners. Conversely, all I did was wipe the pan, flint, and frizen between shots.
Loading was done without overhead cover. The muzzle was kept under a wide brim hat during loading, and the breech raised and held under my arm to keep it dry prior to approaching the firing line.
Zonie said:
That is true, but there is a period of time between firing and application of that water proof cap where moisture can affect the powder charge. Not to mention formation of condensation
in the flash channel where it isn't easily removed. That is the reason it is recommended to keep a hunting rifle at ambient temperature in a truck, for example, vs in a heated building while in hunting camp.
Someone mentioned that it takes someone with a brain to shoot a flint gun. That may be, but IMHO, it only takes common sense.
I just remembered a recent survival walk where the requirement was to plug the TH and fill the bore with water. The requirement was to clear and dry the bore, load and hit an animal target within an unmentioned time limit. Pretty easy to do with a flint gun.
The cap shooters rarely got their guns to fire within the time limit. Some of them couldn't get their cap guns to fire at all...for the rest of the survival walk.
So are percussion guns as much fun a flint guns? Not when it's cold and damp enough for condensation to form in the flash channel. Nor are they much fun when the bore is filled with water.
Conversely, a trying to shoot a cheaply made flint gun is an exercise in frustration. Good quality guns can be a joy to shoot and are very reliable.
IMHO, buy American. Better quality, better value.
The cap shooters rarely got their guns to fire within the time limit. Some of them couldn't get their cap guns to fire at all...for the rest of the survival walk.
So are percussion guns as much fun a flint guns? Not when it's cold and damp enough for condensation to form in the flash channel. Nor are they much fun when the bore is filled with water.
Conversely, a trying to shoot a cheaply made flint gun is an exercise in frustration. Good quality guns can be a joy to shoot and are very reliable.
IMHO, buy American. Better quality, better value.
JackAubrey
45 Cal.
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Nope!Best regards J.A.
My thoughts about the old "water in the flash channel" or oil in it for that matter is that too many people today own the newer style factory made percussion guns.
It seems that almost all of them have these "patent breeches" with the typical small hole which is very long relative to its diameter to carry the caps flash to the powder charge and, yes, these can have fouling, oil or moisture in them and that does affect the reliability of the gun.
Most of the guns which had the conversion from Flintlock to Percussion and in fact many of the newly made Percussion guns in the 1800's did not use this design.
Their Percussion system either used a very short drum in the location of the flash pan or they had the nipple attached to a small block at the breech of the barrel. Some of them had the nipple screwed directly into the breech of the barrel.
In all cases, the length of the flash channel connecting the nipple to the bore was very short and often quite large.
IMO guns using this method do not have a problem with instant ignition that is associated with the Percussion system.
As I think about it, the only case of a nipple drum screwed directly into the side of the breech of the barrel having a ignition problem was due to excess oil that had collected in it from overzealous oiling when the owner last cleaned it or their nipple threads were too long and blocked off part of the short connecting flash channel.
It seems that almost all of them have these "patent breeches" with the typical small hole which is very long relative to its diameter to carry the caps flash to the powder charge and, yes, these can have fouling, oil or moisture in them and that does affect the reliability of the gun.
Most of the guns which had the conversion from Flintlock to Percussion and in fact many of the newly made Percussion guns in the 1800's did not use this design.
Their Percussion system either used a very short drum in the location of the flash pan or they had the nipple attached to a small block at the breech of the barrel. Some of them had the nipple screwed directly into the breech of the barrel.
In all cases, the length of the flash channel connecting the nipple to the bore was very short and often quite large.
IMO guns using this method do not have a problem with instant ignition that is associated with the Percussion system.
As I think about it, the only case of a nipple drum screwed directly into the side of the breech of the barrel having a ignition problem was due to excess oil that had collected in it from overzealous oiling when the owner last cleaned it or their nipple threads were too long and blocked off part of the short connecting flash channel.
wwpete52 said:
Wally, I believe you are in dire need of a mentor who really understands a flintlock :hmm:
... I just read through all of the ten pages. After seeing the bevy of your trophies and reading comments from the others (some people cannot resist a dogpile), I would say "obviously you can shoot pretty well, but maybe you do not specifically understand building and tuning a rocklock"
:thumbsup:
It sounds to me like wwpete52 is quite happy with his percussion guns. Also, if I read his post correctly he doesn't own a flintlock so I see no reason for him to get "a mentor who really understands a flintlock." What would he do with him?
Yes, I fully understand the love many people have of a good flintlock however flintlocks are not the only gun around and everyone doesn't have to own one. In fact they don't have to even like them.
Oh. Before you label me as some kind of "anti-flintlock" guy you should understand that I own and shoot more than 8 custom built (by me) Flintlock guns in calibers that range from .36 to .54.
Yes, I fully understand the love many people have of a good flintlock however flintlocks are not the only gun around and everyone doesn't have to own one. In fact they don't have to even like them.
Oh. Before you label me as some kind of "anti-flintlock" guy you should understand that I own and shoot more than 8 custom built (by me) Flintlock guns in calibers that range from .36 to .54.
Zonie said:
Zonie; I was told everyone was required to own and shoot at least one flintlock :wink:
Just kidding; you are quite correct :v
Matter of fact I am considering making my next rifle a percussion along the line of a Vogler (Timothy's?)
Guest
zonie,
"Ole Painless" must be one of the .54s.
Jay
"Ole Painless" must be one of the .54s.
Jay
I'm no good. I'm no good. I'm no good. 
Actually, I'm not so bad. I might have embellished my dislike of flintlocks a little. Not all shot poorly. I had a Brown Bess that was very consistent. Several other were ok. What really turned me off, however, was a beautiful Tulle Fusil (Track of the Wolf parts) that I could never get to fire correctly. My fellow A.L.R.A. buddies couldn't get it to fire consistently either. That was the end of flintlocks for me. Believe me, I'm no novice. It was "back to the future."
Now, please, no more replies to my anti-flintlock rant. I wish that I had never posted it. :surrender:
Actually, I'm not so bad. I might have embellished my dislike of flintlocks a little. Not all shot poorly. I had a Brown Bess that was very consistent. Several other were ok. What really turned me off, however, was a beautiful Tulle Fusil (Track of the Wolf parts) that I could never get to fire correctly. My fellow A.L.R.A. buddies couldn't get it to fire consistently either. That was the end of flintlocks for me. Believe me, I'm no novice. It was "back to the future."
Now, please, no more replies to my anti-flintlock rant. I wish that I had never posted it. :surrender:
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