Are New cap & ball pistols test-fired by manufacturer?

[Zonie]

I'm going by memory here and I don't recall the exact book I read it in but it was about the Colt factory and how they did things back in the days of the cap and ball revolvers.

They proofed revolver cylinders by loading a maximum amount of powder followed by a roundball in each chamber.
Then, they placed the loaded and capped cylinder onto a jig with the chambers pointed upward and lowered a weight down against the cylinder face.
Then, they fired all of the chambers at the same time.

I don't remember if it said how heavy the weight was but anything at all would drastically raise the pressures inside the chambers to something far greater than the gun could ever be loaded to in normal use.

They (the Colt engineers) came up with this method following the failure of some of the cylinders on the initial production of the Whitney made Colt Walkers.
Sam Colt was insistent that this method would be used on all of his cap and ball pistols made following the Walker. Sam Colt was a perfectionist and doing tests like this to insure his guns were safe is part of the reason Colt firearms have always been known for their high quality.

I have no idea at all about how the Italian, British and other European companies proof their guns now but, that's the way Ole' Sam did it.

 

[wiksmo]

Gents ~~~ Appreciate your noting that this new pistol will need to be cleaned NOOB. I've had some revolvers NOOB that were swimming (almost drowning) in packing grease. Had not thought of that aspect, and it's a good reminder.

I plan to stay within the normal powder load range.

The CIP markings discussion has been an interesting part of this thread for me. I will keep my eye out for that engraving since this pistol is manufactured in Spain.

Thanks for the tip on the cleaning tip, Grenadier1758.

An aside to Kansas Jake. Are you currently living in next-door KS? We lived there for 15+ years during the 80s and 90s. Enjoyed KS as I do enjoy now living here in MO.

Back to the original question. Your new gun should be cleaned before firing. Your Trapper should easily be safe with normal black powder handgun loads. I’ve never “proof” tested a new black powder gun from a major manufacturer, but I also keep loads in the normal range.

Keep in mind the OP was asking about a Trapper 50 caliber which is a single shot cap lock.

To answer one of the original questions, "Yes, it will be packed with all manner of preservative greases." The pistol will need to be cleaned. A small caliber cleaning tip will be needed to clean the hole that is through drilled in the breech plug to the touch hole.

The Traditions Trapper pistol is made in Spain by Ardesa. Spain requires all firearms to be proofed. There will be stamps on the barrel indicating proof certification. So, his pistol will have met proof test requirements.

 

[TFoley]

Your pistol was made in Eibar, in the basque region of NE Spain, centre of gun trade for over four hundred years. You will see the following stamps -NOT engravings - on or near the breeching -

1. Shield surmounted by a helm, the shield bearing a large X

2. A pair of crossed rifles/muskets, also in the form of a large X - this is the provisional proof, a mild overload. the arm will then be inspected for any damage, and if it is deemed sound, it will go on to

3. Definitive proof - a somewhat larger charge. This stamp is three circles, one on top of the other two.

4. You MIGHT also see PN - Pulvero negro - black powder, depending on the age of the arm.

 

[wiksmo]

The distinction of stamps vs. engravings is a good point. Appreciate the list of stamps you provided. Thanks.

Your pistol was made in Eibar, in the basque region of NE Spain, centre of gun trade for over four hundred years. You will see the following stamps -NOT engravings - on or near the breeching -

1. Shield surmounted by a helm, the shield bearing a large X

2. A pair of crossed rifles/muskets, also in the form of a large X - this is the provisional proof, a mild overload. the arm will then be inspected for any damage, and if it is deemed sound, it will go on to

3. Definitive proof - a somewhat larger charge. This stamp is three circles, one on top of the other two.

4. You MIGHT also see PN - Pulvero negro - black powder, depending on the age of the arm.

 

[TFoley]

Sir, your appreciation is appreciated.

 

[Capn'D]

I appreciate this whole thread! I've been trying to explain a lot of this to several buddies for months. A little at a time doesn't stick. But you have it all in a nut shell here!

 

[Kansas Jake]

Wiksmo, I’m in the Manhattan area.

 

[wiksmo]

Thanks. Ah, home of K-State, strong Ag state university. I was on the campus a couple of times years ago.

You are a shade over two hours from my place. Along with discovering where I can shoot my BP pistol here in MO, sometime I'd like to learn more about your area. It'll be interesting to find out where you shoot in KS, groups you might be in, etc. Never know. Just might cross the state lines and head West someday again.

Wiksmo, I’m in the Manhattan area.

 

[jlatz]

The First Santa Fe Trail Plainsmen hold muzzle loading shoots the third Sunday of the month near Overbrook, Kan. The Sunday shoots include pistol and rifle. Muzzle loading trap and specialty shoots are held the Saturday prior to the Sunday events. January is the only month the shoot events are not held.

 

[wiksmo]

Appreciate that, Jlatz.

I googled this group, and the only contact info is using FB. I don't have a FB account. Request a favor. Do you perhaps have an email address or phone number to contact this group? Maybe even the name of a member or organizer?

Also checked mapquest, and Overbrook, Kan. is only 80 or so miles from me. A doable drive for a weekend event, if I can find out what they future stuff they have planned.
TIA.

The First Santa Fe Trail Plainsmen hold muzzle loading shoots the third Sunday of the month near Overbrook, Kan. The Sunday shoots include pistol and rifle. Muzzle loading trap and specialty shoots are held the Saturday prior to the Sunday events. January is the only month the shoot events are not held.

 

[Cruzatte]

First Santa Fe Trail Plainsmen host a rendezvous the third week end of October. This year's dates are Oct. 18-20. Tin tipis and modern camping are both welcome.

 

[TFoley]

QUOTE - It should also be noted that in Germany and the UK, IF you possess an India origin musket with a drilled touch-hole, you the buyer must have submitted that musket to respective proofing house for certification testing and stamping.

In UK, possession of a modern SMOOTHBORE replica that has a touch hole is illegal unless you have a shotgun certificate, since the presence of the touch hole implies that it is a fully functioning firearm.

It is not YOU, the owner, who is responsible for ensuring that it in 'in Proof', but the importer, IF it is intended for shooting. These replicas from India are imported for TWO main reasons, mainly, in the case of military arms, for either reenactment using blanks, or for shooting, using projectiles. Anybody over the age of 18 can buy a decoration version, but the drilled-through touch hole may only be bought by a shotgun licence holder. The importer is entirely responsible in law for sorting out the Proofing of any firearm that he sells for shooting purposes.

 

[ugly old guy]

I just joined the MLF this weekend, and have my first question. It is more a curiosity Q since I've never before purchased a BP firearm.

Whenever I've bought a new rifle or handgun, I know they are test-fired before being shipped out to distributors. Is that the case also with BP firearms? Just wondering if my new Trapper .50 cal I'm waiting to receive will need an up-front cleaning before I shoot it? I'm thinking that the answer I may get is a yes. TIA.

All BP arms (or barrel) manufacturers proof test their wares.

 

[Eras Gone]

WITHOUT ANY KIND of permit.

TFoley, I have British friends who speak of a "Shotgun" permit to own a smoothbore reproduction Civil War musket. In fact they are .58 Rifled Muskets that have been left smooth to make them easier to get a permit. What is this permit and how difficult is it to acquire?

 

[Zonie]

While all of this talk about shotgun permits for smoothbores is interesting, I'll ask a question:

Does this "shotgun" permit allow you to own and shoot a smoothbore pistol in the UK? This is, after all, the Handgun section of the forum and the comments in this topic should relate to pistols.

 

[TFoley]

While all of this talk about shotgun permits for smoothbores is interesting, I'll ask a question:

Does this "shotgun" permit allow you to own and shoot a smoothbore pistol in the UK? This is, after all, the Handgun section of the forum and the comments in this topic should relate to pistols.

Nope - ANY smoothbore firearm with a barrel less than 24" is classed as a Section 1 [Rifled] firearm, for which you must have a Firearms Certificate [AKA FAC].

So in answering your question, any smoothbore replica handgun is classed the same as any regular rifled firearm, and subject to the same set of draconic rules and laws. A Harper's Ferry flintlock pistol is called the same as a .50cal BMG Barratt bolt-action rifle [sorry 'bout that].

Anybody can own freely own an antique muzzle-loading handgun of any kind, but to shoot it, you MUST have a FAC and be a member of the gun club.

 

[TFoley]

TFoley, I have British friends who speak of a "Shotgun" permit to own a smoothbore reproduction Civil War musket. In fact they are .58 Rifled Muskets that have been left smooth to make them easier to get a permit. What is this permit and how difficult is it to acquire?

It is called a Section 2 License, and anybody who can show good reason can have one. Good reason is membership of a gun club or re-enactment society like the Blue and the Grey for the WoNA period, or The Sealed Knot for the English Civil War period. In either case you will be shooting blanks although you MAY, if necessary shoot projectiles as a demonstration on a suitable range. The same goes for ANY shotgun that holds up to THREE shots, although this is now moving out of the remit of this forum.

The Section 2 certificate, usually called simply a Shotgun Certificate, allows you to buy and own as many smooth-bore firearms as you have room for or can afford. In UK Common Law, you can NOT be refused such a permission if you have good reason. If you ARE refused, then it is up to the county police issuing authority to PROVE in court that you are not a fit person.

 

[fossilledges]

Wow, Great thread! Thanks for all the info on proofing. --Dr. Paul