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Aqua-Fortis?

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jamesthomas

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I have a plain maple stock for my Rifle that I'm working on. It has NO curl at all, should I still apply Aqua-fortis 2x with a rub down between
coats or can I go straight the Tru-oil an gun wax? I know the Aqua fortis is used to bring out the curl but my stock doesn't have any at all. Or will using it bring out some curl that I can't see?
 
Aqua fortis colors the wood. I never understood this "bring out the curl" business. The wood either has figure, or it doesn't. The best look, in my opinion, for relatively plain maple, is stained with aqua fortis, neutralized with lye, and apply a REAL boiled linseed oil finish. Unfortunately, I don't know of any decent modern offering of real boiled oil. Have to make it. Tried and True Varnish Oil is usable for this, though, and it does ok.
 
The Aquafortis reagent reacts differently depending on the grain (density) of the wood (higher vs. lower content of tannins in the growth rings). This is what results in the differences in coloration intensity that are fully dependent upon the "curl" (striped effect in tiger maple).

Personally, I would apply the reagent and then put finish over top. Otherwise, all you will see is the white color of maple, which is not the way a longrifle should look...
 
You don't need curl in the wood to make aqua fortis work. I've stained a few very plain maple stocks using aqua fortis and they came out very nice. Aqua fortis is just a stain, a deep penetrating, durable, stain that does help bring out the curl (if it's there), but mostly it's used just to color the wood.

And unstained maple looks really bad in my opinion. blah. Bill
 
snowdragon said:
You don't need curl in the wood to make aqua fortis work. I've stained a few very plain maple stocks using aqua fortis and they came out very nice. Aqua fortis is just a stain, a deep penetrating, durable, stain that does help bring out the curl (if it's there), but mostly it's used just to color the wood.
Actually, it is a chemical reaction resulting in a colored product rather than a traditional "stain" (colored material in a carrier). The iron in the Aquafortis reagent reacts with tannins in the wood to give a colored iron precipitate. It does make for a rather nice reddish-brown color even on unfigured wood, which can be made darker with an application of tannin (strong tea) to the wood (before the aquafortis reagent).
 
Since tannens react to the aqua fortis, as they do with vinegaroon in leather, would you think a good soaking of a strong tea solution would assist the aqua fortis in wood, as it does vinegaroon in leather?
 
I've read posts by others that say it does and I have no reason to believe otherwise.
I will be trying it (out of curiosity) for myself soon (I'm out of tea). However, period journals I've read used the same/similar combinations in "ebonizing" wood.

EBONIZING WOOD.

Additional recipies: http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=ebonizing+wood

http://books.google.com/books?id=9...CGAQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=ebonizing wood&f=false


Title page - http://postimg.org/image/ox2lp1iyx/
Recipes - http://postimg.org/image/4e7pjz51l/
 
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Wick Ellerbe said:
Since tannens react to the aqua fortis, as they do with vinegaroon in leather, would you think a good soaking of a strong tea solution would assist the aqua fortis in wood, as it does vinegaroon in leather?
yes it does or for that matter any other high tannin source such as walnut dye or oak gall "tea". The softer parts will absorb more than the harder parts and when the AF is applied it will react with the higher tannin contents offering a greater contrast overall.

And yes AF works nicely on even plain maple...


As for Tried and True's Linseed Oil Varnish - while not perfect (mainly it's a bit too soft) it works great as a base - I just add more rosin/pitch to make it harder and you can even add lead as the dryer such as used in the original recipes. Only caveat - as with all linseed oils based finishes it needs to be applied in very thin coats and allowed to dry between coats. Start off with a couple of coats of thinned down seedlac finish, then apply the BLO varnish and you have a very good period and good overall finish that is easily maintained and repaired as needed.
 
Gun stocked in plain sugar maple, colored with Aqua Fortis and finished with genuine, old fashioned, thick, dark, red, boiled linseed oil.

M94.jpg

M8.jpg


And I agree, the Tried and True Varnish Oil is too soft for a surface varnish. It would work fine as an in-the-wood oil finish, and most definitely MUST be applied LIGHTLY (with linseed oil finishes, disregard any instruction you have ever heard or read using the phrase "flood and soak"!!!), and MUST be put in the sun for each coat to dry.

I finished one gun with Tried and True as a surface varnish (also filling the grain with it), and it did ok, but was pretty soft. It definitely needs more rosin to make a harder varnish for a surface finish.

I like light colored/unstained maple too, but it definitely needs to be figured for that! :grin:
 
Thanks guys for all the replies, This is one thing that this Forum has over the others, Fast replies and with pictures also! :thumbsup: . I'm a ways from it but wanted to know before hand. Stophel that's is one beautiful gun. Where did you get the linseed Oil Looks exactly the color I think would look good on my rifle.
 
The linseed oil:

I got some "Varnish makers linseed oil" (purified somehow...) from Wood Finishing Enterprises. Any good quality linseed oil will do. "Cold pressed", or "artist grade", etc. And, yes, you can start out with store-bought, so-called "boiled linseed oil".

It needs to be boiled. I have an electric deep fryer thing, from which, I removed the thermostat, so it will keep running. It MUST be watched closely the whole time, and you MUST have the properly-fitting lid at hand, and do it out in the middle of the back yard, well away from anything you don't want burnt down. Do not let it get too hot. Be prepared for flame ups. Start with a quart of oil (or two, doesn't matter much, just adjust the amounts of driers), and bring it to a low, rolling boil. It doesn't have to be raging, just turning over good. Now, you can add drying agents. Toxic, deadly, horrible drying agents (if you're easily terrified by the safety enforcers). About a tablespoon of "white lead" pigment. Lead carbonate. Put it in, and mix it up. If you wish, you can also add some Umber pigment, burnt or otherwise, matters not. The manganese in umbers is also a drying agent, and not toxic. I haven't tried it by itself yet, but you can if you're worried about the period correct deadly lead.... :haha: Oh, and the oil will change color, and smell. The pleasant, familiar linseed oil smell will be gone, replaced by something not quite so attractive. (The lead white and Umber pigments can be obtained from Kremer Pigmente or some other artists' supply house, as can high quality oil.)

Now, here comes the trial and error. The longer you boil it, the thicker it will be (and the faster it will dry, since by boiling it you are essentially "pre drying" it). There seems to be no steady guide for time. For thinner, smoother oil that you can still spread with your fingers and wipe off, try boiling for about a half hour. Test it by dipping in a stick and drawing out a bit, let it cool and see how thick it is when cool (it's always thin when hot). Basically, boil until you reach the desired consistency. When satisfied, turn off the heat and let it cool SOME. You do NOT want it to cool off completely, or you'll never get it out of your pot! I pour it into glass mason jars (has to be hot to pour, but not too hot, as that will break the jars). While the oil is warm, you may add some turpentine. Preferably aged turpentine, as this will aid in drying. Turpentine is aged easily by pouring some into a loosely covered jar and let it sit. Several months/years later, you have rather thick, red, aged turpentine (turpentine itself has varnishlike qualities, and varnish can be made with a turpentine base, though I have never tried it). Some say you can add turpentine to your boiling oil. Now, while it may be beneficial to your oil, I will STRONGLY recommend against doing so. The reason being that a pot of linseed oil that has caught fire will emit 1 foot high flames that are easily extinguished with the lid. Linseed oil with turpentine that has caught fire will blast forth 6 foot high roaring flames of death. Trust me. Keep turpentine away from heat. :wink:

For the first coats, I want the oil thinner so it will penetrate the wood better, and so I can just wipe the excess off the surface of the wood. Yes, it takes a while to dry, and sunlight is absolutely necessary. I can tell by the change in the smell of the wood when it is dry. After getting some of that down in the wood and built up, then I can go to the thick stuff.

My thick oil is so thick it must be thinned quite generously with turpentine to do anything with it at all. With this stuff, you do put it on heavy. For the first application or two, try to not leave a whole lot on the surface of the wood. Let it ALMOST dry (and this stuff dries rather faster than the thin oil!), again, in the sun. Now you're ready for the "hand rubbed" part of a "hand rubbed linseed oil finish". I hope you have strong arms and plenty of stamina. Take some burlap, and cut all the oil off the surface of the wood, using a shoe-shine motion across the grain. Fun. For stubborn spots, you can use a LITTLE turpentine to help get it off, but don't use too much, because you don't want to pull the partially-dried oil up out of the grain. Rub, rub, rub, till your elbows ache. When ALL of the oil is off the surface, then set it back in the sun to thoroughly dry. Repeat as necessary until the grain is completely filled, and the wood surface is smooth with no grain visible in the light. The wood should now have a deep, dark, "wet" appearance. :wink:

Sounds like fun, eh? Actually, it's not too onerous, but the cutting off the oil with burlap is definitely hard work.
 
Be prepared for flame ups.

Toxic, deadly, horrible drying agents,

Several months/years later,

fire will blast forth 6 foot high roaring flames of death.

Rub, rub, rub, till your elbows ache.

:shocked2:
No Thanks,
Tru Oil for me Please
 
Holy Moly Batman!! :shocked2: . Well, I don't think I'll be adding any Terpentine to my Linseed oil.! 6 foot roaring flames of hell is not in the game plan!. You say to age the turpentine to get the red color, but do you have to age the linseed oil?
 
necchi said:
Be prepared for flame ups.

Toxic, deadly, horrible drying agents,

Several months/years later,

fire will blast forth 6 foot high roaring flames of death.

Rub, rub, rub, till your elbows ache.

:shocked2:
No Thanks,
Tru Oil for me Please

:rotf:

yeah, really..

You buy the oil, add a bunch of stuff to it, boil it, take the chance that it will either
a. not come out right or
b. blow your face off
when what you are really doing all along is creating something just like Tru Oil. :doh:
 
Oh, it's NOTHING like Tru Oil. Not even close.

If one wants a gun that looks and feels like an 18th century gun, one must use period materials and methods as much as possible to achieve it. :wink:

Just keep your turpentine out of the boiling oil, and fire won't be a problem.

When you're done boiling the linseed oil, it is ready to go right away. The aged turpentine is not necessary, but it does help some. And there's no work involved in making it. It can be purchased ready to go from Wood Finishing Enterprises.

Again, if someone wants a reasonably historically accurate period finish, you can buy the Tried and True product, and it does fine as an "in-the-wood" oil finish. But it does take time to dry. Time most people simply do not want to take. If they can't get four coats on in an afternoon, they ain't foolin' with it! As I understand it, the Tried and True is "stand oil" which has then been heated, but not really boiled, so that rosin can be added. Wish they had added a bit more! It does need more rosin added to make for a better surface varnish. This can be easily done by simply heating the oil, doesn't have to be really boiling, and drop in some rosin. It melts in quite readily.

For a clearer grain appearance, you can do some grain filling ("sealer", or "spit coat") with a spirit varnish of shellac, or seedlac (I personally like to use buttonlac, with a little mastic added). EASY to do, no heat required. Take a quantity of your chosen resin, and dump it into a mason jar. Pour in some denatured alcohol or grain alcohol, swish it around and let it sit for a few days and dissolve, and viola! You now have a spirit varnish. No fuss, no muss. The "cut" makes no difference. You just want it thin enough to soak into the wood, but not so thin there's nothing there. To apply, just slop it on the stock HEAVILY and keep it wet with finish as long as you can stand it to get as much as possible soaked into the wood (it won't really soak in much, no matter what). With an alcohol-wetted rag, quickly wipe off the excess from the surface of the stock. This will suck some of the lac out of the grain, but that's fine. Give it an hour or so to fully dry (even that much time isn't generally necessary) and go over the stock with an alcohol-dampened rag to get ALL of the lac off the surface. Every last bit. You can repeat once or twice more if necessary. Now your stock is ready for a surface varnish. :wink:

There are spirit varnishes that were used as top coats, and are reasonably durable, generally the recipes call for "spike lavender oil" to be added, but other than the basic lacs, I have not delved too deeply into spirit varnishes. They are certainly easy to make, and fairly easy to apply, though the "French polishing" procedure does not appeal to me... :grin:

This is a stock that is finished by filling the grain with lac and an oil varnish applied on top. I do NOT, however, remember just what it was that I used for an oil varnish.... Anyway, see how much clearer and brighter the wood is, with no darkening of the end grain.
Stain1.jpg

Stain2.jpg
 
As I understand it, the Tried and True is "stand oil" which has then been heated, but not really boiled, so that rosin can be added. Wish they had added a bit more! It does need more rosin added to make for a better surface varnish. This can be easily done by simply heating the oil, doesn't have to be really boiling, and drop in some rosin. It melts in quite readily.
Chris it's not on the site apparently anymore, but they used to note that T & T oil is heat polymerized and not just stand oil (in fact in the art world stand oil is often heat polymerized and not just to left to stand in or out of the sun to thicken) for instance the Gamblin brand http://www.dickblick.com/products/gamblin-stand-oil/.
As for heating to add more rosin - yep or you can just dissolve the rosin in Turpentine and add as needed while cold -

And I agree this finish is nothing like Tru-OIl, much better and it's not all that dangerous or hard to make - as noted starting with T & T you can just add the rosin, etc cold.

As for drying - while I live in the high dry SW with plenty of sunlight I have found that air flow is as important if not more so than the sun/heat- I get things to dry even when the sun is not optimum or it's too cold out by hanging them in front of a 20" box fan at speed 2....
 
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I never thought of dissolving the rosin cold in turpentine before!!!!! :doh: Awesome tip! Thank you! That makes it SO easy!
 
SO simple, I had to just go out and do it! Crushed up some rosin, and put about an inch worth into a mason jar. Opened a nice can of Sunnyside turpentine that is SEVERAL years old. The good smelling stuff (some turpentine smells nice and pine fresh, some turpentine STINKS horribly. Depends upon the type of tree they make it from, I guess. I don't use the stinky turpentine!). It has "aged" a little bit even in the sealed can. Reddish brown, and a little bit thick. Should be awesome stuff. Poured it in the jar, and covered the rosin plus a little bit. We'll see how it does!
 
Boiled linseed oil from Lowes has worked pretty well for me. Just that I apply daily coats of the stuff for atleast a week.
 
First rifle I ever built I used blo from the hardware store. Applied several coats and rubbed every night for a couple weeks. Finish looked fine and I was proud till I carried it in the woods for the first hunt and wore most of the finish off. It was damp thad day and i wore more on me than the gun. I later finished it with a concoction similar to the one Stophel described, with advice and help of a friend and it has since held up pretty well and looks nice.
 
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