Anyone Know Who Made This 1860?

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by DevilsLuck, May 8, 2019.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

  1. May 8, 2019 #1

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    40 Cal

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    32
    I recently bought this 1860, used. This is my first foray into black powder pistol. I tried to find out who made it, but to no avail. I don't know the makers marks of black powder pistols. I was able to find that the "XXII" indicates that it was made in 1966. This thing is a fair bit older than me.

    Its been a lot of fun to shoot, but it seems a bit worn out. Its got some shake to it, the cylinder gap is definitely larger than a new one, and it's not really all that accurate. But it was enough fun to prompt me to order a new Uberti. So... What can y'all tell me about this pistol? 0507191848_HDR.jpg 0507191848b_HDR.jpg 0507191847a_HDR.jpg 0507191847_HDR.jpg
     
  2. May 8, 2019 #2

    Goose

    Goose

    Goose

    32 Cal

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Pietta 1851 has identical markings except for the XXII
     
  3. May 8, 2019 #3

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,747
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    Winchester, VA
    Have you looked on the bottom of the barrel hidden by the loading lever? I have a Uberti in hand and its serial number has an A prefix.
     
  4. May 8, 2019 #4

    madsweeney

    madsweeney

    madsweeney

    32 Cal

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    3
    This is how you can identify Italian repros
     

    Attached Files:

    Goose and RP3543 like this.
  5. May 8, 2019 #5

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    40 Cal

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    32
    Yeah, there’s no additional lettering under the loading lever...
     
  6. May 8, 2019 #6

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    40 Cal

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    32
    Would that make this a Pedersoli?
     
  7. May 8, 2019 #7

    TFoley

    TFoley

    TFoley

    62 Cal.

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,192
    Likes Received:
    109
    From Mike Beliveau -

    But as your pistol has no name on it, it's a mite difficult to say who made it. It needs a new wedge, BTW.
     
  8. May 8, 2019 #8

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    40 Cal

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    32
    It’s on the list of supplies I have to order. But yeah, no name... Could this be an old build it yourself kit gun?
     
  9. May 8, 2019 #9

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,747
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    Winchester, VA
    "Could this be an old build it yourself kit gun?"

    Unklikely, it's too well finished for that and a home build probably would never have received a color case finish.
     
  10. May 8, 2019 #10

    Phil Coffins

    Phil Coffins

    Phil Coffins

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2017
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    88
    Location:
    Colorado
    Never say never! This is a no name pistol that I refinished to include cch the receiver, hammer and loading lever.
    [​IMG]IMG_0400 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
     
    Shot deer likes this.
  11. May 8, 2019 #11

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    40 Cal

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    32
    Wow! That looks great!
     
  12. May 8, 2019 #12

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    40 Cal

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    32
    I noticed also that the grips are very well fitted. Better than many of the Piettas I handled in the store recently. Dead flush with the metal where they adjoin... the Piettas grips were a bit proud of the metal...
     
  13. May 8, 2019 #13

    Eterry

    Eterry

    Eterry

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,033
    Likes Received:
    119

    Nice find... I've seen the wedge placed on an anvil and judiciously peened to tighten the cylinder gap... also seen metal taken from where barrel frame meets the pins, but alter at your own peril.
     
  14. May 8, 2019 #14

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,747
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    Winchester, VA
    In all the kit guns I saw (had one) the frame and grip straps were "as cast" and the barrel bore the machining marks from manufacture. They needed to be draw filed or sanded before polishing and finishing. You'll note the raised edges of all the stamps (serial #, proof marks, etc.) which would have been removed durring the finishing if it were a kit.
     
  15. May 8, 2019 #15

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    40 Cal

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    32
    I see...
     
  16. May 9, 2019 #16

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Moderator Staff Member MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    28,037
    Likes Received:
    792
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Not finding a makers mark stamp is actually pretty common on replica pistols.
    I don't know if the companies that made them weren't proud of their work or what but I've owned a lot of cap and ball pistols that only had the Italian proof marks on them.
     
  17. May 9, 2019 #17

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    40 Cal

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    32
    I wonder if anyone knows who was producing these guns in 1966, and I could thus google images, and find some candidates by matching characteristics of the pistol..?
     
  18. May 9, 2019 #18

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Moderator Staff Member MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    28,037
    Likes Received:
    792
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Good luck to you on your search but, there were a lot of Italian companies that made reproduction guns back in the late 1960's and 70's. Most of them went out of business or they were bought by larger companies and easily found records of their demise aren't available.

    As for recognizable differences there won't really be any. They usually look pretty much alike. The only difference would be some of the sizes of the parts and this is usually only measurable in the thousandths of an inch by using a micrometer or a dial caliper.

    The gun you showed is a "4 screw" 1860 Colt. The fourth screw is the one that is sticking out from the sides of the frame and it has a protruding head on it that is meant to engage the locking lugs on a removable shoulder stock. This feature was quite common to the 1860 Colt but rather rare on the earlier 1951 Colt.

    I'll suggest that you just be happy with your pistol and enjoy shooting and looking at it. :)
     
    Woodnbow and DevilsLuck like this.
  19. May 9, 2019 #19

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    DevilsLuck

    40 Cal

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    32
    I guess the mystery will have to be part of the charm. I wondered what those screws were for. They didn’t seem to do anything when I disassembled the pistol. Now I know. Probably explains that dished out section below the grip too.
     
  20. May 9, 2019 #20

    Long Johns Wolf

    Long Johns Wolf

    Long Johns Wolf

    36 Cal.

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    If memory serves the only Italian makers of steel frame Colt 1860 Armies replicas during the middle of the 1960s were Armi san Marco (ASM) and Uberti. Both companies fitted steel back straps.
    There might be more stamps and also makers marks visible under the frame when you remove the triggerguard.
    That might help to solve the mystery.
    The contour of the wooden grip looks more Uberti than ASM to me.
    Long Johns Wolf
     

Share This Page



arrow_white