Anyone here built a Sitting Fox kit?

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum:

tenngun

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
14,936
Reaction score
6,343
Location
Republic mo
Is it a .54/28 or a .50/32? You kind of have me confused. Anyway, I will be interested to here your impression of the kit when it arrives. Pictures would be nice as well.
Well they list it as a 28, but a .54 shoots a half ounce ball, so I’m thinking it’s a 32. I’ve not measured it for sure yet. Deer won’t care what size it is.
A .50 runs about 38 ball to the pound, a 28 would be closer to .56 cal I think, 250 grains each. A .54 is about 220 grains.
 
Last edited:

30coupe

40 Cal.
MLF Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
380
Reaction score
211
Location
Iowa
Sorry, that was DOM barrels used on his fowler - smoothbores.
Ah, I see. That isn't what I'm looking for at the moment. I can't find any info on the DOM barrels though. Do you have a link? I'm always looking to learn something new!
 

30coupe

40 Cal.
MLF Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
380
Reaction score
211
Location
Iowa
Well they list it as a 28, but a .54 shoots a half ounce ball, so I’m thinking it’s a 32. I’ve not measured it for sure yet. Deer won’t care what size it is.
A .50 runs about 38 ball to the pound, a 28 would be closer to .56 cal I think, 250 grains each. A .54 is about 220 grains.
I see. They would have fooled me. Thanks for clearing that up. I know the .54 ball is around 220 grains, so I should have just done the math...7000/220=31.82...about as close to 32 as you're going to get! I'm eager to hear your impressions of the kit! I hope their kits are better than their math, lol!
 

tenngun

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
14,936
Reaction score
6,343
Location
Republic mo
All the parts from sitting fox arrived today. Castings are good and clean, stock has nice profile with thirty hours of shaping done but plenty of meat to work on. Not included in kit was a nose cap and toe plate... nor were they advertised. Patch box options were offered I’m still thinking about what I want to do on that front.
So I’m giving them a shout out today. I like Track Of The Wolf and pecotonic, but sitting fox gave me every bit as good parts and serve.
An no I’m not a paid employee of sitting fox and they did not approve my message... just a satisfied customer
 

Flint62Smoothie

50 Cal.
Joined
Dec 30, 2004
Messages
1,878
Reaction score
235
Location
NE Mass
Ah, I see. That isn't what I'm looking for at the moment. I can't find any info on the DOM barrels though. Do you have a link? I'm always looking to learn something new!
Member “Razorbritches” did some testing in January 2014 that resulted in rhis info, for his destructive testing to 62-caliber DOM (Drawn Over Mandrel) tubing barrels for smoothbore MZL’drs:

”One of the complaints made against DOM was the lack of testing, well I tested it yesterday. When I built my gun I had 2 pieces profiled for barrels, so I took the second one out yesterday morning and breeched it. I started at 250 grns of 3ff and 1 prb and, marked the barrel every 2 inches measuring it with a micrometer. I fired and measured it, increasing 50 grns of 3fff each shot till I reached 400 grns. there was no measurable change so, I fired a final shot at 400 grns of 3ff and 2 prbs.This blew off the stop block I had nailed to my test plank 30', the barrel went 10'. There was no measurable change.

See link HERE on Pg 2: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/dom-tubing-that-being-used-for-barrels.69435/page-2

I know I have a PDF article I made up of all his testing info and pictures. PM me an email address and I will share it with you. I never went to 400-GRAINS of black powdah, but I too ‘proofed’ a few DOM-barreled MZL arms that I use myself (2 RBs and ~80-grns powdah) and I also never saw any variations in OD measurements and I have measurement capability to 0.0001”.
 

tenngun

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
14,936
Reaction score
6,343
Location
Republic mo
I got to say, if I double charged it would be less then 200 grains. I never have doubled balled. I don’t think I ever double charged... but if I did it would not be super big.
Sam Falada tried to blow a barrel and could only do it with a huge charge and ball off the powder.
Provided you load like someone with enough brains to own a gun, ram your charge home,and maintain your gun, I seriously doubt any barrel will ever give you trouble. I’m pretty sure if a gun of mine ever parts it will be my fault, not my guns.
 

Zonie

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
MLF Supporter
Joined
Oct 4, 2003
Messages
32,990
Reaction score
7,112
Location
Phoenix, AZ
IMO, people should be aware that DOM tubing is not "seamless" tubing.

It is rolled tubing that is butt welded by automatic arc welding machines and then drawn thru dies and over a mandral to remove the appearance of the weld joint.
The tubing is not tested by ultra-sonic, penetrant or magnetic particle inspection to assure a good weld joint.

It is made for use in low pressure applications which are not subjected to rapid pressure rises such as are common in gun barrels.

The fact that some DOM tube barrels survived proof testing does not assure that all DOM tubing will.

As you folks might have guessed, I am not a supporter of making gun barrels out of DOM tubing so I advise, use it at your own risk.
 

tenngun

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
14,936
Reaction score
6,343
Location
Republic mo
So how many have you heard of blowing that were not
1) poorly loaded: ball not down or over charged
2) poorly maintained: rustier then the Titanic
3) loaded with smokeless powder?
I’ve heard of failures but the ones I’ve heard of were shooter error.
 

RonT

40 Cal.
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
311
Reaction score
16
Location
Mid Ohia
"IMO, people should be aware that DOM tubing is not "seamless" tubing."
-DOM (Cold Drawn) tubing can be both Seamless and Welded. Been doing this in Shelby, Ohio for ~100 years.*

"The tubing is not tested by ultra-sonic, penetrant or magnetic particle inspection to assure a good weld joint."
-Been doing this also, just not as long, ~70 yrs.

"It is made for use in low pressure applications which are not subjected to rapid pressure rises such as are common in gun barrels."
-You're on a roll,..... Somewhat true. I would be more concerned with the Breech than the barrel. And, it has been done (made into gun barrels), safely. !

" The fact that some DOM tube barrels survived proof testing does not assure that all DOM tubing will"
- Finally, the fact(s).
*See Ohio Steel Tube, Copperweld, Shelby, ArchelorMittel......
Cheers,
R
 
Last edited:

tenngun

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
14,936
Reaction score
6,343
Location
Republic mo
A .50 ball weighs in at about 180 grains, about 38 balls to the pound. A . 54 weighs in at about 220 grains, 32 to the pound. A .58 about 280 and a bit 24 to the pound. A 28 bore ball would weigh in at 250 grains
Double the diameter increase the weight eight times. That one-two hundredth of an inch at that size of a ball hole makes a big difference. I don’t think I could get a 220 grain ball down my.50, or a 250 grain ball down a .54.
At the time of the plains rifles hey day we see lots of .54s uniformity in production was becoming more common and I think two ball to an ounce was a factor.
I note popular old calibers 12 bore,.58-24 bore, .44-48 bore and .36-96 bore, each step doubled the ball to the pound,
 

tenngun

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
14,936
Reaction score
6,343
Location
Republic mo
"IMO, people should be aware that DOM tubing is not "seamless" tubing."
-DOM (Cold Drawn) tubing can be both Seamless and Welded. Been doing this in Shelby, Ohio for ~100 years.*

"The tubing is not tested by ultra-sonic, penetrant or magnetic particle inspection to assure a good weld joint."
-Been doing this also, just not as long, ~70 yrs.

"It is made for use in low pressure applications which are not subjected to rapid pressure rises such as are common in gun barrels."
-You're on a roll,..... Somewhat true. I would be more concerned with the Breech than the barrel. And, it has been done (made into gun barrels), safely. !

" The fact that some DOM tube barrels survived proof testing does not assure that all DOM tubing will"
- Finally, the fact(s).
*See Ohio Steel Tube, Copperweld, Shelby, ArchelorMittel......
Cheers,
R
So how many Loyalist arms,Vetrens Arms,middelsex Village,Discriminating General arms are you hearing aboutt failing in use?
 

Brokennock

69 Cal.
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
3,172
Reaction score
1,863
Location
North Central Connecticut
I'm thinking of all the failed forge welds I've seen on "Forged in Fire" and other videos, and that original barrels were forge welded tubes, how much more likely can a d.o.m. barrel be to fail than a forge welded one?
I wonder if it makes a difference if one uses powder or powdah?
 

Scota4570

45 Cal.
Joined
May 24, 2005
Messages
788
Reaction score
27
If your wanting a kit in a southern mountain gun. Contact Jim kibler. Sitting fox product is not even close to kiblers. If your want a early colonial gun. Contact Jim kibler. The best quality parts available. Precision CNC of stock to parts inlets. Solid dense wood. Not the soft maple used on cheap suppliers. Also look a ALR American long rifle site. Lots of top builders there freely give advise. And much info to search on and learn.
Agreed! IF you want a Southern flintlock Jim Kibler's kits are by far the best ever made. Nobody else is in the same ball park. Considering what you get the price is cheap. I have assembled four if his kits, I am not speculating.
 

Trot

45 Cal.
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Messages
874
Reaction score
78
So how many Loyalist arms,Vetrens Arms,middelsex Village,Discriminating General arms are you hearing aboutt failing in use?
At one point I was thinking of getting one of the Indian made muskets, and I did a lot of searching and research on barrel failures. At that time I found 5. I only counted if there were pictures or indisputable evidence. I am sure some were user error, but I decided against getting one.
 
Last edited:

30coupe

40 Cal.
MLF Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
380
Reaction score
211
Location
Iowa
Agreed! IF you want a Southern flintlock Jim Kibler's kits are by far the best ever made. Nobody else is in the same ball park. Considering what you get the price is cheap. I have assembled four if his kits, I am not speculating.
Sent you a PM.
 

crankshaft

40 Cal
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
155
Reaction score
37
® I would think with this litigation friendly environment,

if DOM bbls failed on their own merit, the manufacturers would not sell them? ?
 

Stony Broke

32 Cal.
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
570
Reaction score
387
I have a sitting fox smoothbore flintlock, 62 cal. pistol. I didn’t build it, I purchased it for 100 bucks at a local flea market. The front sight was missing, so I just soldered a new turtle sight on it, and it was good to go. It functioned just fine, and I have no complaints.
 

Titus Bass

32 Cal.
Joined
Oct 13, 2013
Messages
27
Reaction score
8
I built a setting fox kit last summer it was a one off germanic pennsylvania kit 45cal smooth bore i changed lot on it went more poor boy with it took top stock down to around 3'' drop no butt plate full buckhorn site shoots balls well i've shot ragged holes at 33 yards good for me an shoots shot well to i use 40-50 load #6 an 3f. was very happy with kit no parts missing wormy maple wood i drilled touch hole myself first flintlock i've ever had in my hand. I couldn't tell you anything about their builders they use but kits what you make of it.Sorry i dont have ant pictures of it on this computer, shoot me email at blackjackfarm2000@yahoo.com ill send you some you can post them if you like im not sure i can
 
Top