Anyone here built a Sitting Fox kit?

Discussion in 'The Gun Builder's Bench' started by 30coupe, Jan 7, 2019.

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  1. Jan 10, 2019 #21

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

    Cannon

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    Well they list it as a 28, but a .54 shoots a half ounce ball, so I’m thinking it’s a 32. I’ve not measured it for sure yet. Deer won’t care what size it is.
    A .50 runs about 38 ball to the pound, a 28 would be closer to .56 cal I think, 250 grains each. A .54 is about 220 grains.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  2. Jan 10, 2019 #22

    30coupe

    30coupe

    30coupe

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    Ah, I see. That isn't what I'm looking for at the moment. I can't find any info on the DOM barrels though. Do you have a link? I'm always looking to learn something new!
     
  3. Jan 10, 2019 #23

    30coupe

    30coupe

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    I see. They would have fooled me. Thanks for clearing that up. I know the .54 ball is around 220 grains, so I should have just done the math...7000/220=31.82...about as close to 32 as you're going to get! I'm eager to hear your impressions of the kit! I hope their kits are better than their math, lol!
     
  4. Jan 10, 2019 #24

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

    Cannon

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    All the parts from sitting fox arrived today. Castings are good and clean, stock has nice profile with thirty hours of shaping done but plenty of meat to work on. Not included in kit was a nose cap and toe plate... nor were they advertised. Patch box options were offered I’m still thinking about what I want to do on that front.
    So I’m giving them a shout out today. I like Track Of The Wolf and pecotonic, but sitting fox gave me every bit as good parts and serve.
    An no I’m not a paid employee of sitting fox and they did not approve my message... just a satisfied customer
     
  5. Jan 10, 2019 #25

    Flint62Smoothie

    Flint62Smoothie

    Flint62Smoothie

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    Member “Razorbritches” did some testing in January 2014 that resulted in rhis info, for his destructive testing to 62-caliber DOM (Drawn Over Mandrel) tubing barrels for smoothbore MZL’drs:

    ”One of the complaints made against DOM was the lack of testing, well I tested it yesterday. When I built my gun I had 2 pieces profiled for barrels, so I took the second one out yesterday morning and breeched it. I started at 250 grns of 3ff and 1 prb and, marked the barrel every 2 inches measuring it with a micrometer. I fired and measured it, increasing 50 grns of 3fff each shot till I reached 400 grns. there was no measurable change so, I fired a final shot at 400 grns of 3ff and 2 prbs.This blew off the stop block I had nailed to my test plank 30', the barrel went 10'. There was no measurable change.

    See link HERE on Pg 2: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/dom-tubing-that-being-used-for-barrels.69435/page-2

    I know I have a PDF article I made up of all his testing info and pictures. PM me an email address and I will share it with you. I never went to 400-GRAINS of black powdah, but I too ‘proofed’ a few DOM-barreled MZL arms that I use myself (2 RBs and ~80-grns powdah) and I also never saw any variations in OD measurements and I have measurement capability to 0.0001”.
     
  6. Jan 10, 2019 #26

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

    Cannon

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    I got to say, if I double charged it would be less then 200 grains. I never have doubled balled. I don’t think I ever double charged... but if I did it would not be super big.
    Sam Falada tried to blow a barrel and could only do it with a huge charge and ball off the powder.
    Provided you load like someone with enough brains to own a gun, ram your charge home,and maintain your gun, I seriously doubt any barrel will ever give you trouble. I’m pretty sure if a gun of mine ever parts it will be my fault, not my guns.
     
  7. Jan 10, 2019 #27

    Zonie

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    IMO, people should be aware that DOM tubing is not "seamless" tubing.

    It is rolled tubing that is butt welded by automatic arc welding machines and then drawn thru dies and over a mandral to remove the appearance of the weld joint.
    The tubing is not tested by ultra-sonic, penetrant or magnetic particle inspection to assure a good weld joint.

    It is made for use in low pressure applications which are not subjected to rapid pressure rises such as are common in gun barrels.

    The fact that some DOM tube barrels survived proof testing does not assure that all DOM tubing will.

    As you folks might have guessed, I am not a supporter of making gun barrels out of DOM tubing so I advise, use it at your own risk.
     
  8. Jan 10, 2019 #28

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

    Cannon

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    So how many have you heard of blowing that were not
    1) poorly loaded: ball not down or over charged
    2) poorly maintained: rustier then the Titanic
    3) loaded with smokeless powder?
    I’ve heard of failures but the ones I’ve heard of were shooter error.
     
  9. Jan 11, 2019 at 3:51 AM #29

    Flint62Smoothie

    Flint62Smoothie

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    ALL the ones I know of were indeed 'operator error'. Darwin rules ...
     
  10. Jan 11, 2019 at 3:09 PM #30

    RonT

    RonT

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    "IMO, people should be aware that DOM tubing is not "seamless" tubing."
    -DOM (Cold Drawn) tubing can be both Seamless and Welded. Been doing this in Shelby, Ohio for ~100 years.*

    "The tubing is not tested by ultra-sonic, penetrant or magnetic particle inspection to assure a good weld joint."
    -Been doing this also, just not as long, ~70 yrs.

    "It is made for use in low pressure applications which are not subjected to rapid pressure rises such as are common in gun barrels."
    -You're on a roll,..... Somewhat true. I would be more concerned with the Breech than the barrel. And, it has been done (made into gun barrels), safely. !

    " The fact that some DOM tube barrels survived proof testing does not assure that all DOM tubing will"
    - Finally, the fact(s).
    *See Ohio Steel Tube, Copperweld, Shelby, ArchelorMittel......
    Cheers,
    R
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019 at 3:38 PM
  11. Jan 11, 2019 at 3:28 PM #31

    Comfortably_Numb

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    28 gauge is .55 . 30 guage is .52. 32 guage is .50.
     
  12. Jan 11, 2019 at 8:58 PM #32

    tenngun

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    A .50 ball weighs in at about 180 grains, about 38 balls to the pound. A . 54 weighs in at about 220 grains, 32 to the pound. A .58 about 280 and a bit 24 to the pound. A 28 bore ball would weigh in at 250 grains
    Double the diameter increase the weight eight times. That one-two hundredth of an inch at that size of a ball hole makes a big difference. I don’t think I could get a 220 grain ball down my.50, or a 250 grain ball down a .54.
    At the time of the plains rifles hey day we see lots of .54s uniformity in production was becoming more common and I think two ball to an ounce was a factor.
    I note popular old calibers 12 bore,.58-24 bore, .44-48 bore and .36-96 bore, each step doubled the ball to the pound,
     
  13. Jan 11, 2019 at 9:03 PM #33

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

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    So how many Loyalist arms,Vetrens Arms,middelsex Village,Discriminating General arms are you hearing aboutt failing in use?
     
  14. Jan 12, 2019 at 12:36 AM #34

    Brokennock

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    I'm thinking of all the failed forge welds I've seen on "Forged in Fire" and other videos, and that original barrels were forge welded tubes, how much more likely can a d.o.m. barrel be to fail than a forge welded one?
    I wonder if it makes a difference if one uses powder or powdah?
     
  15. Jan 12, 2019 at 12:37 AM #35

    Scota4570

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    Agreed! IF you want a Southern flintlock Jim Kibler's kits are by far the best ever made. Nobody else is in the same ball park. Considering what you get the price is cheap. I have assembled four if his kits, I am not speculating.
     
  16. Jan 13, 2019 at 9:44 AM #36

    Trot

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    At one point I was thinking of getting one of the Indian made muskets, and I did a lot of searching and research on barrel failures. At that time I found 5. I only counted if there were pictures or indisputable evidence. I am sure some were user error, but I decided against getting one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019 at 9:58 AM
  17. Jan 14, 2019 at 2:19 AM #37

    30coupe

    30coupe

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    Sent you a PM.
     

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