Antique Rifle Questions

[Joshua Hopkins]

Hi! I purchased my first firearm about a week ago; it's an antique (Hawkens?) percussion rifle supposedly from the 1830's-40's. Before I go shooting with it, I was hoping I could get some answers to a few questions. Firstly, it appears to have a bit of wood chipping around the lock. A few people have told me that this shouldn't matter too much, but I'd like to ask you lot if you think it would affect the integrity of the weapon to the point that it wouldn't be wise to shoot it. If so, can I use wood putty or somesuch to repair it?

Secondly, what percussion cap would a rifle of it's age take? I don't really know how to measure the nipple, but I'm tempted to say musket caps if it's as old as claimed. I was also told that a grain or two of powder can substitute a percussion cap if you place it near the nipple. That sounds less than ideal to me, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks,

Joshua

 

[Trot]

I don't think anyone can say if it is safe to shoot from pictures. It would need to be checked out thoroughly, nipple, bolster, barrel condition, breech plug. The nipple is pretty battered and would need to be replaced, a percussion cap is needed, you can't just use a few grains of powder.

 

[Joshua Hopkins]

I don't think anyone can say if it is safe to shoot from pictures. It would need to be checked out thoroughly, nipple, bolster, barrel condition, breech plug. The nipple is pretty battered and would need to be replaced, a percussion cap is needed, you can't just use a few grains of powder.

Specifically a percussion cap and not a musket cap? I've looked into both and near me, CCI musket caps are far more available than percussion. Is there more difference to them than just size?

 

[TFoley]

Brother Trot above nailed it. This interesting-looking Hawken-style rifle needs to be very carefully examined by somebody who knows what they are looking at, and can make a firm judgement call on its safety as a shooting arm. As for using plastic wood to repair, would you trust your car if you'd repaired the broken crankshaft with a dab of JB Weld?

I'm betting that the 'few people' who told you all you thought you needed to know about this old stager are probably not black powder shooters, although I'm ready to be corrected on that one. Most of us here ARE black powder shooters of one kind or another, in fact, I can select any four here whose total BP shooting time exceeds two-hundred years, without trying hard. Add my short-time experience and that's over two hundred and fifty years.

So the advice that will follow on from this post is from people who DO know what they are talking about. They really do need heeding, to save you long-term and possibly very painful grief.

Your gun need only blow up in your face once, but it will leave a lasting impression, that's for sure.

 

[ord sgt]

If it were mine, I would find a good place to hang it on a wall. Speaking from experience, I did the same exact thing. Bought an old rifle and got curious about shooting it. Instead, I bought a modern made bp rifle kit, put it together and taught meself how to load and shoot the new rifle.
That was 40 years ago. Never shot the old rifle. Too many others to choose from now.

 

[Joshua Hopkins]

Brother Trot above nailed it. This interesting-looking Hawken-style rifle needs to be very carefully examined by somebody who knows what they are looking at, and can make a firm judgement call on its safety as a shooting arm. As for using plastic wood to repair, would you trust your car if you'd repaired the broken crankshaft with a dab of JB Weld?

I'm betting that the 'few people' who told you all you thought you needed to know about this old stager are probably not black powder shooters, although I'm ready to be corrected on that one. Most of us here ARE black powder shooters of one kind or another, in fact, I can select any four here whose total BP shooting time exceeds two-hundred years, without trying hard. Add my sort-time experience and that's over two hundred and fifty years.

So the advice that will follow on from this post is from people who DO know what they are talking about. They really do need heeding, to save you long-term and possibly very painful grief.

Your gun need only blow up in your face once, but it will leave a lasting impression, that's for sure.

One was a reenactor who does shoot muzzleloaders, the other just sold it to me. I will say that the reenactor did not take the gun apart at all and look at the interior, so there's that. My desire to avoid injury is exactly why I'm here before just going off and firing this very old and potentially damaged rifle. If there's one thing I've learned well, it's to take advice from my elders.

Do you know of any groups in the Maine/Massachusetts area that might be able to expertly examine it?

 

[Phil Coffins]

That’s a dandy old rifle! Don’t shoot it. The nipple is very battered and the stock is cracked besides the breech looks questionable at best. This old gun has value as is and you don’t have the experience to try and shoot it. I say that in the kindest way. And most important do you know how to tell if it’s loaded? Many old guns are!

 

[Joshua Hopkins]

That’s a dandy old rifle! Don’t shoot it. The nipple is very battered and the stock is cracked besides the breech looks questionable at best. This old gun has value as is and you don’t have the experience to try and shoot it. I say that in the kindest way. And most important do you know how to tell if it’s loaded? Many old guns are!

I appreciate your honesty! The ramrod fits all the way down the barrel, so I can't imagine it's loaded if that's the case. Is it more of a permanent wallhanger, or I just am taking too large of a risk trying to shoot it as my first black powder rifle? I'd be kinda disappointed if I couldn't shoot it at all.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Nice old rifle. If you are near Lodi OH the gunsmith at The Log Cabin can inspect the rifle to determine if it is safe to shoot and make any necessary repairs at reasonable cost, including the wood. Otherwise another muzleloading gunsmith can look it over for you. I will disagree with others and say it looks like a good bit of life is left in your old rifle but it is necessary to have someone who knows what they are doing look it over. Good luck!

 

[user 49399]

Whoever told you a grain or two of powder could be used instead of a percussion cap should not be listened to concerning muzzleloaders.

 

[Joshua Hopkins]

Whoever told you a grain or two of powder could be used instead of a percussion cap should not be listened to concerning muzzleloaders.

Yeah, that sounded a bit silly to me, too...sounds like an easy way to lose fingers.

 

[Phil Coffins]

I appreciate your honesty! The ramrod fits all the way down the barrel, so I can't imagine it's loaded if that's the case. Is it more of a permanent wallhanger, or I just am taking too large of a risk trying to shoot it as my first black powder rifle? I'd be kinda disappointed if I couldn't shoot it at all.

Yes, that does indicate that it’s not loaded. It is risky to fire it with out a knowledgeable gunsmith giving it a thorough inspection. If it’s OK and the proper repairs are made then you may well have a shooter. It will take some time and money for this but can save an old rifle and a new shooter from damage.

 

[2 shots]

nice old rifle. might want to check the bore ,that just might end the conversation. if its very bad no sense going any further. like said there are plenty of newer, used ,safe guns around. 2 cents worth for free

 

[deerstalkert]

i for one would be proud to own that rifle! But like others here have advised either get it checked out by a competent gunsmith, or take pleasure in displaying it.
you might think of it as an old race horse, a pleasure to look at but having earned its retirement, put out to pasture.
if you can possible post some pictures of the bore we would have more informed advise.
you state that the ramrod goes completely into the barrel. That in itself doesn't signify a unloaded gun. it depends on the length of the rod.
take the rod and lay it on top of the barrel with one end even to the muzzle. note where the other end lays in relation to the drum. if it is even then the bore is clear. it is rather important that it is clear before doing more with it than looking at it and drooling.
sorry, i am projecting a little, because these old guns always make me drool.

 

[rich pierce]

In my experience it’s one thing to make an antique gun go “bang” and another to get acceptable accuracy, even 6” groups at 50 yards.

To get this to go bang you’d need to get that nipple out using penetrating oil for a week then heat from a torch as necessary.

Then establish that the threads for the nipple are good, or tap for a slightly oversize nipple that you’ve found from Track of the Wolf or Dixie.

Then do a thorough examination of the seal at the breech threads and drum threads.

Then scotchbrite clean the bore for a couple hundred strokes while determining if the bore can be loaded without tearing the patch.

Then find a ball that will load with a patch of about 0.015”, load it up with 20 grains of powder, and have at it.

 

[TDM]

Hi! I purchased my first firearm about a week ago; it's an antique (Hawkens?) percussion rifle supposedly from the 1830's-40's. Before I go shooting with it, I was hoping I could get some answers to a few questions. Firstly, it appears to have a bit of wood chipping around the lock. A few people have told me that this shouldn't matter too much, but I'd like to ask you lot if you think it would affect the integrity of the weapon to the point that it wouldn't be wise to shoot it. If so, can I use wood putty or somesuch to repair it?

Secondly, what percussion cap would a rifle of it's age take? I don't really know how to measure the nipple, but I'm tempted to say musket caps if it's as old as claimed. I was also told that a grain or two of powder can substitute a percussion cap if you place it near the nipple. That sounds less than ideal to me, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks,

Joshua

Best to listen to all the sound advice given above and move very slowly with your nice old rifle. It would be very easy to turn it into a pile of broken parts plus hurt yourself.

 

[oldwood]

And another thing ,.............Working on old original gunstock wood , the wood is almost granular , and could be so deteriorated , w/o replacing it , no repair will be stable. .....

 

[TDM]

One was a reenactor who does shoot muzzleloaders, the other just sold it to me. I will say that the reenactor did not take the gun apart at all and look at the interior, so there's that. My desire to avoid injury is exactly why I'm here before just going off and firing this very old and potentially damaged rifle. If there's one thing I've learned well, it's to take advice from my elders.

Do you know of any groups in the Maine/Massachusetts area that might be able to expertly examine it?

I’m not aware of any but others might. But as said, The Log Cabin Shop, Track of the Wolf, and probably Dixie Gun Works have gunsmiths on staff that know the old rifles.

 

[1BadDart]

I wouldn't shoot it, the stock is broken all the way across the bottom at the front trigger guard screw. If only it could talk.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Joshua Hopkins, based on observations from forum members that I respect from years of following their threads, I believe it would be much too large of a risk to use this rifle as the first rifle for you to experience the thrill of shooting traditional muzzle loading rifles. If you must shoot it, follow @rich pierce's plan, use a #11 cap, which is probably the cap that would fit your nipple.

I suggest that you follow the example set by @ord sgt and get a modern replica and learn using it.