An Ultra High question.

[herbwf]

Last week I was given an Ultra Hi Productions Kentucky Rifle Kit. I think I just heard the slapping of foreheads all over the country,hehehe. The lock is a bigger piece of junk than the one on a CVA pistol I'm trying to resurrect and the two piece stock might be good to practice carving on, but my question is the barrel. It is set up as a cap lock.I might like to try to use it with a better lock and trigger. It is rust free and bore appears to be in very good condition. The barrel is stamped PR 1269. Is this thing safe to shoot? It is miles ahead of the barrel on the CVA pistol. As a matter of fact could it be cut down and used as a pistol barrel?
Thanks,
Herb

 

[Zonie]

A company that called itself Ultra-Hi tried getting into the black powder muzzleloading game back in the 1970's by importing low cost guns. I'm not sure where they were made but I think it was Spain.
They didn't sell well and the company stopped selling them and went out of business the way of a lot of other companies in those days did.

As for safety, I've never heard of one of them blowing up if black powder was used in them so I would say it is probably safe to shoot.

As for getting a new lock and trigger, you might try getting in touch with Deer Creek. They might know something about your Ultra-Hi.

Deer Creek Products
6989 E Michigan Rd
Waldron, IN 46182

(765) 525-6181

I feel fairly safe in saying, buying a new lock for your gun would probably cost about the same or more than your gun is worth but, that's just my opinion.

 

[azmntman]

I feel fairly safe in saying, buying a new lock for your gun would probably cost about the same or more than your gun is worth but, that's just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Agree. Kinda like putting that $4500.00 stereo in your Ford Pinto or yer favorite Gremlin. Can it be done? SURE! Should ya? Not if you were born after 2003.

 

[arcticap]

Last week I was given an Ultra Hi Productions Kentucky Rifle Kit. I think I just heard the slapping of foreheads all over the country,hehehe. The lock is a bigger piece of junk than the one on a CVA pistol I'm trying to resurrect and the two piece stock might be good to practice carving on, but my question is the barrel. It is set up as a cap lock.I might like to try to use it with a better lock and trigger. It is rust free and bore appears to be in very good condition. The barrel is stamped PR 1269. Is this thing safe to shoot? It is miles ahead of the barrel on the CVA pistol. As a matter of fact could it be cut down and used as a pistol barrel?
Thanks,
Herb

Ultra Hi sold a .45 Kentucky percussion rifle that was made in Japan by Miroku.
I've also seen a .45 Kentucky pistol kit with the identical Miroku made lock.
And ~10 years ago I saw a comparable Miroku made Kentucky flintlock rifle for sale on consignment at a local gun shop in the $200 price range.
Some Miroku muzzle loaders were also sold by Sears and were embellished with gold painted scroll work on a black lock plate.
Miroku muzzle loaders don't have much of a following but are known by the people who have owned them.
Are "Japan" or "Miroku" stamped on the barrel or box of your kit?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

You might want to have somebody double check the breech...

For those unfamiliar with the two rifles:



The above were made for CVA, and currently may be found at Traditions,



These were made by Miroku, but the Japanese were often approached to "copy" guns, by making very close copies, or similar copies which are cosmetically different while having some very similar mechanical designs, so you may want to ensure that your Miroku does not have the interlocking drum and breech plug type assembly that one finds on the CVA.

LD

 

[herbwf]

Thank you for the responses guys,they're very helpful. The barrel in question is from the Miroku kit, and is in good shape. The barrel does have the drum as part of the breach plug. This sounds like it is not a good thing?
I was hoping That I might be able to put together a woman or child's rifle using the short barrel for a start. As I said above, I've been working on an old CVA pistol that was started by someone who knew less than me about building. The barrel on that gun is a real piece of junk, but I've learned a lot while trying to correct mistakes made before me. The project has also been instrumental in the Cellar Mice learning a very colorful vocabulary, hehehe. will do some re assessing based on this info,
Thanks all
Herb

 

[snubnose57]

I had a Miroku Ultra High .45 for a few years.Trigger pull was good, would shoot tennis ball groups at 50 yards. Was my "rainy day" rifle. Traded if off last year. Would consider it the same quality as the CVA two piece stock rifle, inexpensive, but far from junk.

 

[AZbpBurner]

So, why is your lock junk? If you have a mainspring vise, disassemble the lock and polish bearing surfaces, that may be more worthwhile than dumping money into a cheap rifle.

 

[will5a1]

Be exceptionally careful - I recall some of the Ultra High's had two piece barrels and were considered unsafe to shoot, the old Buckskin Report detailed at least one that failed, and had pictures of the sectioned barrel. I think, but am not certain, the early production rifles were the ones with the problem barrels. I wish I could provide more specific detail, but its been 40 years or so.

Took a minute to find this, hope the link works, if it does you can make your own informed decision:

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/dangerous-mass-produced-muzzleloaders.92841/

Note the scan and pictures on the thread's second page.

 

[Eutycus]

I'm at a loss. I am familiar with the two piece stock. But a two piece barrel was just mentioned. Having never seen one , just how does a sectional barrel work?

 

[arcticap]

I'm at a loss. I am familiar with the two piece stock. But a two piece barrel was just mentioned. Having never seen one , just how does a sectional barrel work?

It seems to somewhat resemble the barrel connection method that are commonly used in "screw barrel pistols".
The Pedersoli Leige pistol is a reproduction of 18th century Belgian Screw Barrel Pistols.
Navy Arms had imported some similar screw barrel boot pistols some years ago that were made in China that had brass frames and longer barrels.
The bore of the barrel sections of the specific rifle in question may not have been properly aligned, or perhaps the joint became loose over time.
More than one person has shot their loose Colt revolver barrel downrange after forgetting to insert the barrel key or wedge.

Reading the linked thread in post #9 above will help to understand what the 2 piece threaded barrel design is that will5a1 is talking about.

Here's a video about loading the Leige screw barrel pistol.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Be wary of the Ultra High rifles with the octagon to round barrels. The round barrel was threaded into the octagon section. The barrel bores were often not aligned before getting turned down and threaded and the octagon sections tapped.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Thank you for the responses guys,they're very helpful. The barrel in question is from the Miroku kit, and is in good shape. The barrel does have the drum as part of the breach plug. This sounds like it is not a good thing?

Nope, nothing wrong, just don't try to convert it to flinter.
RPL makes replacement/upgrade locks, but they don't list one for the Miroku. https://www.lr-rpl.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=36&Itemid=62 You might want to contact the company to see if they know which one is a close fit or if the have one they simply don't list.

LD

 

[denster]

Be wary of the Ultra High rifles with the octagon to round barrels. The round barrel was threaded into the octagon section. The barrel bores were often not aligned before getting turned down and threaded and the octagon sections tapped.

Grenadier is correct. There was an Ultra-High smoothbore flint musket that had an octagon to round barrel profile and the round section had male threads that fit into the female threads of the octagon. Fortunately the lock was of such poor quality that they could rarely be made to fire. The joke at the time was that the trademark Ultra-High described the mental state of those producing the guns.

 

[nit wit]

Miroku will make whatever quality you want and copy a firearm right down to a buggered screw on Parker double shotguns. The quality certainly wasn't there on the two piece barrel smooth bores. I have a Brown Bess marked ULTRA-HI made by Miroku(the only firearms factory in Japan) It is an accurate copy and of very good quality.
Nit Wit

 

[Badgerfarm]

The Miroku copies of the 1863 Springfield are very good and somewhat sought after these days by the skirmish guys. The profile of the stock and barrel are very close to the originals and aren't as heavy as the repop Italian rifled muskets. They bring a fair price these days.