Allen Head Vent Liner

[Cattywompuss]

So how yall liking the Allen head liners? I recently installed one on that .40 that had the gigantic flash hole. I didn't buy it for ease of removal necessarily, but reckon it can't hurt. Saw a 10 year old thread where some folks swear buy them and others just go traditional.

Any likelihood of weakness with half the liner being essentially empty/hollow, or will the bore remain the path of least resistance rather than the vent?

 

[TreeMan]

I have an RMC hex liner in every flintlock I own that has a removable liner. They all come pre drilled 1/16th. I like em.

 

[EC121]

You can take the fire to the powder or the powder to the fire. It works either way. Personally, I don't care for the look of the big hole in the side of the barrel. I never remove a liner. No reason to.

 

[White Oak]

I'm using them in both of mine . Work great!

 

[tnlonghunter]

Got one in my Garner-built TN mountain rifle. I can't say that it has any problems specifically due to the liner itself. That rifle has had issues with misfires, but I think it was more a combination of not a great lock and the nut behind the stock . I had a lot of learning to do to be able to shoot it effectively. Besides learning how to keep the flint properly knapped, I use a vent pick on every single shot. Haven't had a misfire in years that wasn't due to the flint getting dull. But I still prefer white lightning/coned liners if possible.

 

[Brokennock]

I have a question for those who make there own allen head liners.
Is there enough room in the hole for the allen wrench to drill the flash hole off center?
I'm thinking this may be a good fix for a flash hole that was drilled too low.

 

[Cattywompuss]

Got one in my Garner-built TN mountain rifle. I can't say that it has any problems specifically due to the liner itself. That rifle has had issues with misfires, but I think it was more a combination of not a great lock and the nut behind the stock . I had a lot of learning to do to be able to shoot it effectively. Besides learning how to keep the flint properly knapped, I use a vent pick on every single shot. Haven't had a misfire in years that wasn't due to the flint getting dull. But I still prefer white lightning/coned liners if possible.

Keeping a sharp flint is vital indeed. I also use a vent pick on every shot. Mine is brass wire, so no chance of it damaging or wearing out a vent hole over time itself. I reckon, as someone said in a very old post here, the Allen style is virtually a reversed coned liner.

 

[excess650]

I have or had some TC allen head liners and IIRC, they were drilled closer to .07" and would dribble a litte fffg. I prefer smaller diameter flash hole, 1/16" or even smaller if reliable.

For a too low flash hole, do you have room on the side flat to go 5/16 or 3/8" and off center?

 

[Griz44Mag]

I have a question for those who make there own allen head liners.
Is there enough room in the hole for the allen wrench to drill the flash hole off center?
I'm thinking this may be a good fix for a flash hole that was drilled too low.

When I converted my Cliff Jackson after a busted perc lock I discovered the hole for the bolster was threaded 3/8 X 16 - and that is a thread that is not available in any commercial liner. So I used a long Allen set screw.
In the process of finding the right everything, I wound up shaving the taper off the bottom of the set and most of the extra deep hex off the top.
Then I coned the backend and fitted it. So the hex is pretty shallow but I left enough to be robust and not strip.
I drilled it for the standard 1/16" hole and it works perfectly.
On my other flinters I used the OXYOKE liners and have found them to be very reliable.
Personally - I'll use the hex drive liners every time.
I have gone shooting with different folks and not a single one of them noticed the difference in the liner, even after shooting my gun.
As far as drilling the flash hole off center, no need. The "perfect" alignment of the hole is a myth.
Try and get it on the horizon, but don't spend too much time frettin' it, if it's anywhere in the neighborhood it's going to go bang if the pan flashes.

 

[ohio ramrod]

As a tool room machinist I have made many liners out of common allen headset screws with no problems.

 

[tenngun]

I like the white lightning over the Allan or even the screwdriver slot, and only then cause it blends in with the barrel.
I don’t worry about pulling one back out cause I can’t think of a reason one would pull it.
However you could pull it if needed with a slot or Allan where as I would ruin a white lightning getting it out.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I like the white lightning over the Allan or even the screwdriver slot, and only then cause it blends in with the barrel.
I don’t worry about pulling one back out cause I can’t think of a reason one would pull it.
However you could pull it if needed with a slot or Allan where as I would ruin a white lightning getting it out.

My thoughts on that are this:
If the liner NEVER needed to be removed (or replaced) then there would have been no reason to do anything but drill a hole in the first place.
However - it is a fact that under heavy or long term use - that drilled hole will enlarge and eventually be a problem.
Those who claim they have not changed or removed a liner in XX number of years - likely don't put a large number of rounds through the gun.
I do not remove a liner every time I clean up after a trip, but I have burned out a liner on my favorite gun and had to replace that liner.
Had it just been a drilled hole, it would have then been drilled and threaded for a liner, but since that was done at the factory - replacement was a fast and easy 5 minute job.
And there was one situation where I helped a friend who did not understand a patent breech very well and "cleaned" his gun and left a solid plug of junk in the channel, that one had to be picked out from both angles to get it clear, good thing that one had a liner too!
So I see both points of view, and in todays world 99% of all flintlocks have liners installed, on one type or the other. I like having the options of removing the liner especially since almost all of my guns have a patent, semi-patent or some variation of that undersized channel that makes it a nice feature to have.

 

[tenngun]

My thoughts on that are this:
If the liner NEVER needed to be removed (or replaced) then there would have been no reason to do anything but drill a hole in the first place.
However - it is a fact that under heavy or long term use - that drilled hole will enlarge and eventually be a problem.
Those who claim they have not changed or removed a liner in XX number of years - likely don't put a large number of rounds through the gun.

I do not remove a liner every time I clean up after a trip, but I have burned out a liner on my favorite gun and had to replace that liner.
Had it just been a drilled hole, it would have then been drilled and threaded for a liner, but since that was done at the factory - replacement was a fast and easy 5 minute job.
And there was one situation where I helped a friend who did not understand a patent breech very well and "cleaned" his gun and left a solid plug of junk in the channel, that one had to be picked out from both angles to get it clear, good thing that one had a liner too!
So I see both points of view, and in todays world 99% of all flintlocks have liners installed, on one type or the other. I like having the options of removing the liner especially since almost all of my guns have a patent, semi-patent or some variation of that undersized channel that makes it a nice feature to have.

In the past a liner was placed because a hole burned out. Twigg and Egg and their like made platinum and gold liners to resist corrosion. However this was on irron barrel.
after I discovered ml at seventeen the only suppository guns I shoot are personal defense guns. All my hunting and pleasure shooting has been ml these forty plus years. I’ve had traded and replaced arms but I don’t know if over that time I’ve shot enough to burn out a modern steel liner
Of course there may be done or some of thing happened. I don’t usually prick a touch hole, but I’m sure even a soft prick might wears a hole. And boys that are hard core competitors shoot ten times what I do.
So I said about a white lightning, if I had to pull it I would ruin it getting it out, but about the only reason I can think of I would pull it would be to replace it.

 

[Griz44Mag]

In the past a liner was placed because a hole burned out. Twigg and Egg and their like made platinum and gold liners to resist corrosion. However this was on irron barrel.
after I discovered ml at seventeen the only suppository guns I shoot are personal defense guns. All my hunting and pleasure shooting has been ml these forty plus years. I’ve had traded and replaced arms but I don’t know if over that time I’ve shot enough to burn out a modern steel liner
Of course there may be done or some of thing happened. I don’t usually prick a touch hole, but I’m sure even a soft prick might wears a hole. And boys that are hard core competitors shoot ten times what I do.
So I said about a white lightning, if I had to pull it I would ruin it getting it out, but about the only reason I can think of I would pull it would be to replace it.

Agreed. And even with something like a white lightning with no driver method the liner will be fairly easy to remove with an easyout or similar tool to be replaced.
I have a Bess with only a drilled hole but I don't shoot it a lot. I can see with the (lack of) wear on the drilled hole it is highly unlikely that it will ever need servicing.
And if it ever does it will very likely receive something like a white lightning so it will maintain as close to possible the original finish appearance.
I have a couple of others that see a lot of use and I keep extra liners in the parts boxes for those.
By that same ideology, I keep an extra nipple (or 2) for the percussion guns as those get a good amount of shooting time as well. A percussion nipple wears the same way that a liner hole will wear, they are expendable parts designed to wear and be replaced as needed.
Interesting you mention pricking the touch hole.
I have 2 Pedersoli flintlocks - the Frontier that builds a crust plug at the touch hole has to be pricked every 5 or 6 shots or it will start failing to ignite and a Pennsylvania Dixie Deluxe that never needs pricking. As far as I can tell they both have the same exact patent style ignition design but have markedly different needs while shooting long strings.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

I have a question for those who make there own allen head liners.
Is there enough room in the hole for the allen wrench to drill the flash hole off center?
I'm thinking this may be a good fix for a flash hole that was drilled too low.

I don't make my own, but as you know over the counter THs come in different diameters. Your thought seems to be a good way to correct misalignment. If your barrel is large enough and the TH could be larger than the usual 1/4", it may work. Not seeing what you have, and getting some exact measurements, I am only guessing it would work at this point. The flash hole can be offset, provided you don't encroach on the threads or thread integrity.
Larry

 

[Griz44Mag]

I don't make my own, but as you know over the counter THs come in different diameters. Your thought seems to be a good way to correct misalignment. If your barrel is large enough and the TH could be larger than the usual 1/4", it may work. Not seeing what you have, and getting some exact measurements, I am only guessing it would work at this point. The flash hole can be offset, provided you don't encroach on the threads or thread integrity.
Larry

I have seen one that the owner used a bolt, cut it off flush and dressed it down, thereby completely plugging the hole, then used a drill press to drill the flash hole where he wanted it.
Of course this methods does not allow for coning the inside for powder ingress like most liners have but the drilled holes in guns of yester-year were very likely not coned either. He did not seem to have any issues with reliable ignition. As you mentioned, one needs to be very careful and not damage the threads.