Add powder for distance..or not

[TexiKan]

The Kansas plains have not had a kind winter. That, and employment commitments have kept me away from shooting since last October. Yesterday I was out at the range and to my surprise not only did I remember how to load and shoot the gun, but I also came in first place! Amazing grace! Anyway, a few of the guys were discussing how they added more powder to their guns for the 100 yard targets. I stated I used the same load at 25 yards through 100 yards.

My reasoning is that my gun shoots its best at that same load. If I adjust it up or down, I no longer have the same consistency. Other guys add extra powder to their guns for longer distances. Curious. What is the prevailing though and experiences on this?

TexiKan

 

[John Wasmuth]

Dont make much sense to deviate from a 100 yard hunting load for any distance. Kentucky windage and Tennessee elevation are the old rule. Hold high, hold low, depending upon the range. Practice, practice, practice...
did I mention practice, at different distances to find the exact hold you use at different yard lines for known distance targets.
The fun part is unknown distances......

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Adding powder can work within reasonable limitations. Hunters who think they can add 100 grains to get 200 yd kills with a round ball are smokin funny weed. There comes a point of diminishing returns. This is caused by a combination of barrel length, speed that powder burns and the lousey ballistics coefficient of round balls. The English found that the trick is to use the same powder charge and a longer bullet, or to simply use a bigger ball. In general with the same powder charge, (say 75 grains) a 75 cal ball retains more of it's initial energy at 100 yds than a 44 caliber ball does at 100 yds. In fact the formula is roughly the same, A 75 caliber ball retains about 75% of it's initial energy at 100 yds, a fifty cal retains about 50% etc.

In addition air density can cause more rapid deceleration after a round ball exceeds the speed of sound. As the ball exceeds the speed of sound, air piles up more dramatically in front of the ball and actually causes the sonic ball to slow down faster than a sub sonic ball. There comes a point at which dangerously increased powder charges only extend the effective kill range about 25 yds. so the risk really isn't worth the difference.

Now, bullets on the other hand can more effectively pierce the air and retain energy mulyiple times longer than a round ball. According to Frank Mayer, Bufflo hunters made clean kills at 400 yds with a 44-77. ie 44 cal bullet and only 77 grains of powder. That would never happen with a round ball.

 

[ohio ramrod]

While some do add powder I for one stick with my best grouping load (sighted in at fifty yrds )for all ranges.

 

[bwhoffman]

While some do add powder I for one stick with my best grouping load (sighted in at fifty yrds )for all ranges.

I take my best grouping load and zero at 50yd. i then place targets at 25, 35 75 90 and 100yds and develope my own "hold over/under chart. Then I memorize it for the most part.
my .40 is under an inch high at 25 and only about 2 low at 100. the 58 on the other hand....!

 

[arcticap]

Because my target load for shooting at 25 & 50 yards is relatively low,
I add more powder to provide better momentum and trajectory out to 100 yards.
The gun doesn't require the extra powder at 25 & 50 yards so I don't need to use the heavier load.
I feel that through experience and familiarity with the individual gun, it will dictate its needs to the shooter regarding how much powder to load.

 

[TexiKan]

While some do add powder I for one stick with my best grouping load (sighted in at fifty yrds )for all ranges.

Yes, I do the same. I have taken quite a bit of ribbing when I shoot the same load at 25 yards. Like I said, it's very consistent even though it sounds loud.

What tended to happen to some at the 100 yard range was a significant drop in the impact point. Instead of aiming higher, they added powder. Now I am not sure if they scored better, but that is what led to my question.

TexiKan

 

[Idaho Ron]

I stick to one load for all ranges. Ron

 

[Tom Compton]

Douglas .40 cal 42" barrel.

50 gr FFg at 25 and 50 yards sighted dead on. 75 gr at 100 and for hunting - again sighted dead on.

I do not like holdover if can avoid it as cannot see the target so cannot get consistant hold over. I can hold low and still see the target.

TC

 

[Bill Hall]

One load for all ranges. One less thing to think about.

 

[roundball]

I'm not a competition shooter and not a serious bullseye shooter...my weekend range shooting is for my enjoyment, anything from shooting stick-on dots to empty .12ga hulls, to steel hangers, etc...all in the 25-50 yard range and the "caliber" size powder charge does fine...use the same for small game as small game distances for me are always in that same range.

For deer hunting, never knowing at what distance I might have a shot offered I can't be changing powder charges at the spur of the moment...so I use one high power load zeroed at 50 yards...and testing tells me it drops about 4" at 100 yards.

If I ever get a 100 yard shot, I'll know to just hold on top of the heart...but 70yds has been my longest and I just held point blank on the heart.

 

[MikeChapin]

I shoot a lot of competition around Wyoming and use two different loads. I develop a load at 50 yards and use that at 25 and 50 yards. After I have developed the load at 50 I add powder until I am hitting at the same POA/POI that I did at 50. When I used to hunt a lot, this load was used for hunting also.

I do this for a couple of reasons. Most shooting in competition is done at 25 and 50 yards. At a state shoot I can easily shoot 60 rounds in a day and the lighter loads don't beat me up shooting them all day. The other reason is that I'm lousy at guessing at hold over at longer distance.

Most of the people I shoot with are split about 50/50 on the two load question. Using one load works well for those that use one load and they do well holding to hit at 100. I just never got the knack.

 

[TexiKan]

Most of the people I shoot with are split about 50/50 on the two load question. Using one load works well for those that use one load and they do well holding to hit at 100. I just never got the knack.

Interesting. I guess my reasoning for a single load goes back to the advice that one adjusts the load up or down to find the most consistent one. (I believe even the "crack" of the gun shot is considered) If I change that load, my consistency varies. However, I will admit I have not found the "sweet load" with less powder at another distance.

For those who have two loads, what is their general adjustment?

TexiKan

 

[Jim/OH]

The best load for groups is just that -- the best load. So if you work it up, my theory is to stick with it and move the sights to get where I need to be. I have found on most of my guns that they stay pretty much on target at 25 and 50 yds., but drop about 4" at 100 (roughly, it varies). So if the gun has adjustable sights, I just move them up for 100, or if not adjustable, you have to either "hold over", or "show more sight" to make up for the drop. Adding more powder just messes up the hard fought for "best grouping load". I believe you can get away with more powder if you have a slower twist barrel as apposed to something like 1 in 48, but it still hurts some. :thumbsup:

Just my thoughts, see ya, Jim/OH :hatsoff:

 

[MikeChapin]

...

For those who have two loads, what is their general adjustment?

TexiKan

It depends on the caliber. My .32 and .36 go from 30 grains 3F to 40 for 100 yards. My .58 goes from 60 grains 3F for 25 and 50 yards to 85 grains for 100.

Most rifles have two sweet spots. It is more pronounced in 1:48 twist barrels. It probably has something to do with barrel harmonics and length and other black magic stuff. Most .50 T/Cs I have seen have a sweet spot in the 45-60 grain area and a second one in the 75 to 90 grain range.

 

[rafterob]

I originally tried two different loads but had better luck at 100 by using my most consistent load and using elevation control. I have recently started shooting a CVA Mountain Rifle. Worked out to a 65 grain charge and interestingly it has the same point of aim at 25,50 and 100. The only rifle of mine that performs like that. I would like to be able to try some longer distances to see where it starts falling off.

 

[Trench]

I stick with one load for all distances. 80gr 2F in my .58 and 40gr 3F in my .36. It's mostly a function of time. I've got a young family and there just isn't the time to go to the range and experiment. :idunno:

 

[Blizzard of '93]

as said there's a point of 'diminishing return' with powder charge where the powder will be pushed out the barrel to burn inn the flame in front of the muzzle. this seems to be in my .50 about 80gr 3F with a prb and about 110gr 2F with a slug.

 

[TexiKan]

Your gun sounds a lot like mine. I have an older Sharon .50 cal. and it seems to shoot pretty flat on from 25 yards to 100 yards with 70 grains. If I adjust the powder five grains either way, the grouping is not good. Knowing that not all guns and barrels use the same load for effect, I was curious about those who were able to increase their load and continue to be accurate.

TexiKan

 

[romeoh]

Well, at the range I´m usually shooting at a 50 meters distance. 65grs work well in my Pedersoli Hawken.
I tried the 100 meter range and switched to 95grs, having in mind that someone used to mention this as an accurate hunting load.
I was lucky. :grin: With the higher load I can hold center just like at the 50 meters without changing anything on the sights. :v