Accuracy help. Traditions longrifle

[Stykbow]

That’s about the right weight for a .490 ball. FWIW, my GPR thru shotgun patterns with a .490 ball and .015 patches. Didn’t start behaving till I switched to a .0220 patch.

 

[Maven]

I borrowed a camera from work we use to look inside tight places, from what i can see the inside of the barrel has no rough or jagged spots. Also i checked my box of round balls and it says 175 grains?

A 175gr. RB is ~.490". Was that size easy to seat or do you think you need to go to .495" or, as Stkykbow suggested, a thicker patch?

 

[Britsmoothy]

So now we are going to carry swabbing gear and a pounding device to get the ball in the barrel!
Lord give me strength .

 

[Stykbow]

I don’t need a hammer to load that combo. I know that’s completely unthinkable, but I also fired a dozen shots without swabbing on my last range trip. It never became hard to load. I hope the lord grants you that strength and it’s used to hold in anymore snarky remarks.

 

[Grenadier1758]

... First shot from a clean barrel is accurate, every shot after hits very far to the right. But i skip swabbing the barrel it seems to group better. Am i doing something wrong? Is it the gun? I have no idea at this point.
...
P.S if it helps i clean the barrel spotless with boiling hot water than a few patches of tc number 13 cleaner than run multiple dry patches. I than run a patch soaked in rem gun oil before puting in a fire proof save with dehumidifier. Before shooting i run a couple patches of alcohol down the barrel followed by dry patches.

What is the thickness of the patch you are using with your ball? What is the patch lubrication? Apparently the ball is a 0.490" round ball.

One of the differences between your Traditions rifle and the T/C Hawken is the depth of the grooves. What I am seeing from your description of the groups getting tighter when you don't swab between shots is the effect that the filling of the grooves with fouling is making your perhaps too thin patch fill the grooves to prevent gas blow with the result of a tighter group.

The first change would be to use a thicker patch of at least 0.020" thickness that is lubricated as preparation for loading the ball.
The second change would be going to a 0.495" ball with a 0.018" patch.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I don’t need a hammer to load that combo. I know that’s completely unthinkable, but I also fired a dozen shots without swabbing on my last range trip. It never became hard to load. I hope the lord grants you that strength and it’s used to hold in anymore snarky remarks.

Thank you, I need it.
However it was not " snarky" you were observing. It is in fact frustration.

To ask a bit of cloth to ride a rifled barrel with sharp edges and evenly limit gass leakage without suitable lubrication will not improve with a change of ball or patch thickness.
The only cavat to that is that if the patches look like they can be used again then there may be a good reason to go to a tighter combo.

Have we seen this fellers patches? I don't know, I get lost on these issues but do get frustrated listeng to advice which treats the symptoms over finding the issue.
I'm this case a change appeared when the swabbing nonsense routine changed! That is screaming something to us!!

 

[Stykbow]

Thank you, I need it.
However it was not " snarky" you were observing. It is in fact frustration.

To ask a bit of cloth to ride a rifled barrel with sharp edges and evenly limit gass leakage without suitable lubrication will not improve with a change of ball or patch thickness.
The only cavat to that is that if the patches look like they can be used again then there may be a good reason to go to a tighter combo.

Have we seen this fellers patches? I don't know, I get lost on these issues but do get frustrated listeng to advice which treats the symptoms over finding the issue.
I'm this case a change appeared when the swabbing nonsense routine changed! That is screaming something to us!!

Yeah, I get it. I don’t buy into the swabbing between shots either, but some swear by it. To each their own since it’s not effecting me. I see two options to make a rifle shoot like we want. Either find a way to make the rifle shoot the load we want or we can shoot the load that the rifle wants. Neither way is right or wrong. It’s a choice.

 

[Crow-Feather]

Hello all me again. Some of you probably saw my previous post about my traditions kentucky long rifle. Now that i got it shooting fast and reliably i decided to test the accuracy. To say im confused is a understatement. View attachment 96511as you can see its all over the board. All shots where takin at 25 yards. On a rest. The barrel was swabbed once between each shot. However after i switched to 70 grains this is where i really got confused. After i fired 70#1 i swabbed the barrel and fired 70#2. Than i didn't swab the barrel and fired 70#3. Good hit. Swabbed the barrel fired 70#4 and it went way high. Reloaded with out swabbing and fired 70#5. Now i get that they are called flintchlocks for a reason. But i shot it sunday also and had similar results. First shot from a clean barrel is accurate, every shot after hits very far to the right. But i skip swabbing the barrel it seems to group better. Am i doing something wrong? Is it the gun? I have no idea at this point. Im not trying to sound like a braggert but im a pretty darn good shot. Ive been hunting and shooting competitively since i was a kid, why this thing is all over God's green earth has me stumped. My TC hawken is a tack driver swabbed barrel or not, but this thing? I've spent a lot of time lately on the internet and YouTube and from what i gathered everyone that has bought this particular rifle likes it. Not a tack driver. But accurate enough to take a deer at 100 yards. I wouldnt shoot past 50 at this point. Im shooting 145 grain round balls on a .018 pre lubricated patch. Any and all help is appreciated guys, you've been great help and im looking forward to more wisdom. Thanks.

P.S if it helps i clean the barrel spotless with boiling hot water than a few patches of tc number 13 cleaner than run multiple dry patches. I than run a patch soaked in rem gun oil before puting in a fire proof save with dehumidifier. Before shooting i run a couple patches of alcohol down the barrel followed by dry patches.

I would try a thicker patch. When you don't swab, the groups get better because the barrel is filled with residue from your prior shot and is better sealed.

 

[Hoosier96]

I dont swab between shots when plinking in the field only when testing sights to try and keep a known consistency. Im going to do a little bit of everything suggested and put together an order on track of the wolf for some .495 balls different patches that are dry and some pure mink oil for patch lube. I feel like the combination i have now seats fairly well in the barrel so i suspect patch lube or thickness may be the issue as suggested. I miss the days when i could go to my local mom and pop gun stores and buy this stuff instead of waiting a week to get it through the internet. How times have changed. I also have some TC bore butter lying around ive never used before, whats your thoughts on that?

 

[Hoosier96]

Thank you, I need it.
However it was not " snarky" you were observing. It is in fact frustration.

To ask a bit of cloth to ride a rifled barrel with sharp edges and evenly limit gass leakage without suitable lubrication will not improve with a change of ball or patch thickness.
The only cavat to that is that if the patches look like they can be used again then there may be a good reason to go to a tighter combo.

Have we seen this fellers patches? I don't know, I get lost on these issues but do get frustrated listeng to advice which treats the symptoms over finding the issue.
I'm this case a change appeared when the swabbing nonsense routine changed! That is screaming something to us!!

Mixture of 60 and 70 grain loads, not much of difference although very rarely a 70 grain load will burn through. I found .018 yards of pillow ticking on track of the wolf. Good enough or should i go thicker? These patches are the pre cut pre lubricated patches from traditions.

 

[Britsmoothy]

View attachment 96780

Mixture of 60 and 70 grain loads, not much of difference although very rarely a 70 grain load will burn through. I found .018 yards of pillow ticking on track of the wolf. Good enough or should i go thicker? These patches are the pre cut pre lubricated patches from traditions.

Some of those patches show heavy burning in one area. Some look OK but those with a tug or tare or uneven burning will cause flyers.
Main causes are rough barrel or new barrel. Or insufficient lubrication.
I do not recommend precut and prelubed patches ever!

 

[Maven]

H96, Your patches look OK to me, but if you want to experiment with patch thickness, keeping everything else the same, you can try Jo Ann Fabric since they have a good selection of, well, 100% cotton fabrics. If you have a micrometer (better choice) or dial indicating caliper (OK, but the "Mic" is better), you can go to the store and measure the compressed thickness directly. Pillow ticking and denim (sold by weight) vary in thickness, but are excellent choices, as is cotton duck, as long as you measure the compressed thickness in several places along the bolt.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Just to add.....if you suspect patch weakness. I have in the past rammed a centralised bare patch on the powder and then the patched ball.
It adds a firewall of sorts and extra lube.
Remembering that gas blowing past the patch and ball will give the results you are suffering. So anything that limits the hot gas around the ball may just help you.

 

[Hoosier96]

Im gonna try a little bit of everything guys lol! Got .495 balls 3 diffrent patch sizes mink oil patch lube on the way from track of the wolf lol. Gonna have my wife pick up some of that green stuff to try and polish the bore too.

 

[towgunner11h]

One change at a time!

 

[TreeMan]

Seriously when tinkering at the range I’ve never found a patch lube that does any better than plain sold spit. Put the patch in your mouth while you’re loading the powder. Just get it wet all the way, not dripping. Try that with all your different thickness patches. Once I’ve found my best shooting load using spit I’ll try to see if a little mink or olive oil will shoot just as well with the same load. At the range just use spit. In the woods use oily stuff. I’ve also found that windshield washer fluid does the exact same as spit if the thought of a patch in your mouth gags you. I don’t wipe between shots anymore since I started using the wet patch. I found zero difference in accuracy.