Abusing Our Heritage

Discussion in 'Smoothbore' started by Feltwad, Jan 12, 2020.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

  1. Jan 12, 2020 #1

    Feltwad

    Feltwad

    Feltwad

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    216
    Restoration work see shotguns etc come your way some are just cosmetic work to do but some come in terrible condition. I will never understand how anyone can allow guns to get to a stage where there is almost no return but scrap. Although I have always try to restore our heritage I am now wondering if it is worth the effort
    Enclosed are a couple of images of such a gun it is not a loft or barn find it has been housed in very damp conditions .No matter what work is done it will always just be wall hanger and definitely not a shooter . Question is should I restore or dismantle it for parts
    Feltwad
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  2. Jan 12, 2020 #2

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    zimmerstutzen

    70 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    5,265
    Likes Received:
    172
    Around the 1920's and 1930's many of those old guns were relegated to children's playthings, with dirt and fire crackers stuffed down the barrels, left in the barn or shed even used as pry bars and and reinforcement in concrete. From the spirals on the barrel, I would guess that it was one of tens of thousands of English fine twist muzzle loader double barrels imported and sold here for $3.00 back in the 1870s and 1880's. My personal experience is that finding a fine twist barrel in restorable shape is quite something, whereas most Belgian "hardware company" double barrels held up better to the abuse.
     
    theoldredneck, Capnball and Irish lad like this.
  3. Jan 12, 2020 #3

    Capnball

    Capnball

    Capnball

    36 Cl.

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2019
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    59
    Location:
    Maryland
    I'd hang it up, just like that. In fact, I got one not much better then that hanging on the wall in my office. I might do a good cleaning if it and do something to stop the rust from consuming it completely but that's it.
     
  4. Jan 12, 2020 #4

    poker

    poker

    poker

    40 Cal MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    81
    How would you or why would you restore a piece in that condition? It would seem to me that only the wood would be reusable.
     
  5. Jan 12, 2020 #5

    Rifleman1776

    Rifleman1776

    Rifleman1776

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Messages:
    15,987
    Likes Received:
    584
    Location:
    Arkansas Ozarks
    With new barrels it might be able to become useful again. But is it worth the cost?
     
    azmntman likes this.
  6. Jan 12, 2020 #6

    MSW

    MSW

    MSW

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    7,242
    Likes Received:
    94
    I would give it a very thorough cleaning and hang it. Just one guy's opinion … free and doubtless well worth the cost.
     
    azmntman and Capnball like this.
  7. Jan 12, 2020 #7

    BEP

    BEP

    BEP

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    19
    If you clean it thoroughly with appropriate measures to stop further corrosion and deterioration then hang it on the wall you HAVE saved it.
     
    Capnball likes this.
  8. Jan 12, 2020 #8

    Ames

    Ames

    Ames

    45 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    585
    Location:
    The horned toad says we should go to Mexico.
    Hang it as an example of what not to do.
     
    SmokepoleSam and TFoley like this.
  9. Jan 12, 2020 #9

    russellshaffer

    russellshaffer

    russellshaffer

    36 Cal.

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    96
    Location:
    Klamath Falls, Oregon
    Hang it on the wall. What parts would you salvage anyhow?
     
    Capnball, Coot and sawyer04 like this.
  10. Jan 12, 2020 #10

    sawyer04

    sawyer04

    sawyer04

    45 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    238
    Location:
    missouri
    I run across these old guns and have hung them on the wall after some cleaning and I have used some for tinkering and rebuild. Stop and think, these old fellows have given a lifetime of service and display that in their character, I would clean it to prevent further damage and hang it. These firearms have a lifetime of providing a family with something to eat; it is possible they were the difference between life and death. Maybe nothing gallant, but just done their job the best they could.
    Let the old gun retire in peace and display so it can say "yep, I done that". You can sit back and just have wonderment:" where and what have you seen in your day"?
     
    apachesx2, Capnball and Coot like this.
  11. Jan 12, 2020 #11

    Blogman

    Blogman

    Blogman

    Pilgrim MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    Central Missouri
    Sometimes, for some reason, my eyes leak now and a again when I see one of these. I'll have to see my optometrist soon.
     
    Rudyard likes this.
  12. Jan 12, 2020 #12

    Ames

    Ames

    Ames

    45 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    585
    Location:
    The horned toad says we should go to Mexico.
    And when you hang it on the wall, drive 2 railroad spikes clean through the stock it to do it. Just to remove temptation.
     
    azmntman likes this.
  13. Jan 12, 2020 #13

    Blogman

    Blogman

    Blogman

    Pilgrim MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    Central Missouri
    NNNOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
     
    apachesx2 likes this.
  14. Jan 12, 2020 #14

    Feltwad

    Feltwad

    Feltwad

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    216
    So heritage does not come into it? Would it have been any difference if it had been a Manton , Lancaster, Purdey or any other top London gunmaker?
    Feltwad
     
    Rudyard likes this.
  15. Jan 12, 2020 #15

    Stantheman86

    Stantheman86

    Stantheman86

    32 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    434
    They were just tools back then.

    Saw an old, 1930's? pic of a fence made using Springfield musket barrels as posts. Dozens of them. The wood probably went into the fireplace . No one cared about obsolete old guns.

    A family friend (now passed) was a Police Officer back in the 1950s-70s and his gun buddies on the force would buy percussion revolvers at flea markets for 50 cents and "shoot them until something broke inside " and they'd end up probably in a box somewhere to rust away. They'd buy old muskets and 61 Springfields and cast balls out of wheel weights and quote "shoot loads so hot the hammers would cock themselves " and those weapons were probably parted out or tucked away somewhere to quietly rust. Now, we hold these old weapons as pieces of our Culture , wonder if they were at Anteitam, wish they could talk.....50 years ago they were disposable novelties no one wanted and you could order them from catalogs for 3 bucks.

    Older man at a gun shop said they used to buy 03 Springfields and Krags out of barrels at the hardware store and use them as pry bars or make home brew shotshells for "rat gettin" in barns.

    Only in recent years has everything become "collectible " or nostalgic.

    Don't punish yourself for what people did 50-100+ years ago.

    I sometimes wonder what became of my rifle I had during my Deployment ,that thing was basically a part of my body for a whole year of my life. Probably scrapped or rusting away as part of a foreign aid shipment. Those old shotguns, etc were a part of someone's life at some point , hunting with children, good days in the field, by people long passed.

    Those muskets were once carried by a soldier, whether used in battle, we'll never know.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
    apachesx2, Blogman and smo like this.
  16. Jan 13, 2020 #16

    ppg1949

    ppg1949

    ppg1949

    45 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2014
    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    236
    Location:
    W. Central Indiana
    Before the '68 gun laws, there was a chain store in Indy called Central Hardware that had surplus unmentionable rifles in wooden barrels. I was a teen ager but I should have bought what I could afford. They had a few muzzies in there but I had not started the journey yet. My loss.
     
    apachesx2 likes this.
  17. Jan 13, 2020 #17

    Feltwad

    Feltwad

    Feltwad

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    216
    Maybe in the States they did have a hard life but not in the UK they were sporting guns and not used every day and to get in that condition is pure neglect . I will think on the idea of restoration which will involve more or less a good clean has the old saying goes {You cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear}
    Feltwad
     
    Rudyard likes this.
  18. Jan 13, 2020 #18

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,188
    Likes Received:
    366
    Location:
    Winchester, VA
    It makes no sense to break it up for parts since the parts, other than the wood, are in such bad shape they are nearly unusable or desirable. If it's disassembled it's gone forever. Frankly I don't see anything there worthy of restoration. Clean it and work to prevent further deterioration. There are a lot of folks who would like to have something like that as a decorative item and it would serve as that. It's also possible they might prefer something in a non-shootable condition.
     
  19. Jan 15, 2020 #19

    Feltwad

    Feltwad

    Feltwad

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    216
    Restoration is well under way more or less just a general all round clean will post a image when finished not forgetting you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear .
    Feltwad
     
    smo likes this.
  20. Jan 15, 2020 #20

    theoldredneck

    theoldredneck

    theoldredneck

    40 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    60
    Location:
    Alabama
    I know and understand that to some what I say will be taken as disgraceful. To some of us old guns like that become a different type project. After using something like evapo rust to clean down to bare metal work starts. Going through mechanical parts, lock work etc to see if it can be made to work. Remove breech plugs and nipples, cut and square end of barrels. Turn liners and line barrels to a smaller gauge if it can be turned into something that will function safely. Will it be historical correct, in original configuration as built, No. It will be something that with proper loads can be shot and enjoyed. The liners take the pressure of firing, not the old original barrels. Would personally rather have small bore I can shoot and enjoy than a wall hanger. As to how some of these old guns get that way. Friend bought property with old house and barn that were falling apart. Found tools, guns, and things from late 1800's, early 1900's. Long abandoned and in rough shape, some salvageable some not. Everything has a story, not everything from willful neglect.
     
    desi23 and Rudyard like this.

Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page

Group Builder
arrow_white