A. Uberti Jedediah Smith .54 Rifle

[segner05]

Good afternoon. Though this is my first post, I have been reading this board for a good while now. I own a percussion GPR in .54 cal. and enjoy the heck out of shooting it. I have come across a couple of rifles at a local pawn shop here in town. One of them is a T/C Renegade in .54 and an A. Uberti "Jedediah Smith" rifle marked with .54 cal. The Uberti is apparently a limited production run in that it is marked "9XX out of 1000" (I can't recall the actual number). The rifle is in okay shape...it looks as if it has been sitting awhile. With a little TLC I think it will look pretty nice. It looks as if the muzzle has been shortend by about an inch and a half or so according to the ramrod sticking out past the barrel and the fact that the muzzle has no rounded edges (they are squared off, if that makes any since). The rifle shoulders very nice and feels well balanced. The price tag showed $365, but the guy at the counter said he could do much better than that. Would it be worth my time, effort, and money to buy it or should I run from it. A quick google search didn't do much good. All that I could find was an ancient forum from 1997 saying that the bore was actually undersized at ~.530. Any help that ya'll could give me is greatly appreciated.

Thanks- Craig :hatsoff:

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the forum.

Either of those guns would be a good buy if the bores are in good condition.

I suggest that you take your brass cleaning jag, a thin lightly oiled patch and your cleaning rod to the store.

Run the patched jag down the bore to the breech and pull it back out.
If there are no "tight" or "loose" areas in the bore then hope for a little rust on your patch.
That would give you an argument for lowering the price and if the rust is only light surface rust it won't hurt the gun or its accuracy at all.

If there is a place in the bore that feels "loose" and then feels "tight" a little further down, the barrel has been "ringed" or damaged.
Do not buy a gun if the barrel has this condition.
It was caused by someone firing the gun without fully seating the ball on the powder charge first and once "ringed", a barrel will never shoot accurately. There is no fix for a ringed barrel except to buy a new barrel and the guns your looking at will be hard to find a replacement barrel.

While your looking at them, make sure the set trigger works and the hammer falls from full cock to the nipple using the set triggers.
When testing the set triggers, put your hand on the hammer before releasing the trigger to keep the hammer from freely falling on the nipple.

 

[BobKrohn]

I have one of the Uberti J. Smith Comm rifles.
It's beautiful.
Just to let you know, the bore on these guns DO RUN at about .530 rather than the .54 marked on barrel.
I have also heard this from other sources so I don't think mine is a fluke.
This makes getting moulds a little bit of a chore.
Pre-cast .509, .520, .526, round balls are available from Track of the Wolf.
If you can measure the bore (land-to-land) on the rifle you are interested in, that would be a good idea.
I would also like to know your findings.

Also, my muzzle is fairly "square".
I doubt it was cut. Having a "long" ram rod is common practice.
Measurement from muzzle back to nipple is just over 32".

This would be a somewhat unusual rifle to show up with at your next shoot. Just buy both of them? You may be able to get a super deal! Have Fun.

 

[MikeChapin]

The Jedediah Smith was the premium grade of the old Santa Fe Hawken. Bob is right about the caliber. It is actually a .53. Use a .520 or .515 RB. They are excellent rifles.

I have the Santa Fe model that I have had since the mid eighties. It is a fabulous shooter and the only rifle I managed to shoot a 50-2x with at a paper match.

 

[segner05]

Gentlemen-
Thanks for the replies. Pending the sale of one of my modern guns, I'll be back to the store next week.
Zonie- Thanks for the info. I'll do as you said. I have a jag that will fit the .54 Renegade, but I may have to improvise if the Uberti has a smaller bore.
Bob- Thanks for the insight. I was able to do a more investigative search yesterday evening and turned up a few interesting facts. I found a picture of the Uberti on an expired auction online that also had the "squared-off" muzzle. I also found out that it is supposedly an exact copy of an original Hawkins rifle that still exists. An outfit out of New Mexico contracted Uberti to make a run of 1000 and label them as such. However, the blue-prints show a bore of .53 (as the original Hawkins had) and that is what Uberti made and shipped, though it is marked .54 cal.
If all goes as planned, I'm going to shoot the guy a cash offer for both of them. My cousin is thinking about picking up the muzzleloading hobby, though not in the near future. I figured I'd pick up the Renegade and sell it to him when he's ready. If not, then I'll have another rifle I guess :grin: .
The store also has another rifle- a .50 cal Japanese made thing. Does anybody have any info, good or bad, about these?
Again guys, thanks for the info. Ya'll have been a tremendous help.

Craig :hatsoff:

 

[segner05]

Thanks Mike.
Once I do a good check, I will definatly be getting it.

Craig

 

[MikeChapin]

As for the jag, I just chucked a standard .54 jag in a hand drill and laid a file on it while it was spinning. It took enough off to fit nicely in the Santa Fe.

The Japanese rifle might be a Dixie Mountain Rifle. These were a Tennessee style rifle and came in .32 and .50. They were made by Moroco of Japan and were fine rifles. I still see a few around at shoots.

 

[2172]

When I do a pawnshop purchase, I offer no more than half the current price (if available on Auction Arms), and I have had great success offering to buy two at a time...I got a Traditions Hawken (pawn broker wanted $195,) and a CVA ?bear cub? (can never remember the name..the little one with the black synthetic stock..broker wanted $89) both for $150...
Hank

 

[BobKrohn]

I also found out that it is supposedly an exact copy of an original Hawkins rifle that still exists. An outfit out of New Mexico contracted Uberti to make a run of 1000 and label them as such. However, the blue-prints show a bore of .53 (as the original Hawkins had) and that is what Uberti made and shipped, though it is marked .54 cal.

If you have a link to that tid-bit I would like to have it for my "library". I've been wondering how such a goofy thing could happen.

P.S. there is a fellow in England who has a good rep for making moulds. I haven't gotten one YET, but plan to as soon as I try out various precast balls. Ashamed to say I have not shot my JS rifle yet. :shake:

Link to guy in England

 

[segner05]

Thanks again for all of the replies guys.

Mike- If I can get to Bass Pro, Cabelas or a local shop where my parents live, I'll try to get another jag. Thanks for the info on the .50. I may look at it a little harder next week.

hank- I was going to offer him a lot more than half the tag price, but I'm going to keep your suggestion in mind.

Bob- Here is the link to the website- Link
I hope the link works.

Craig :hatsoff:

 

[segner05]

Okay...nothing is working as far as URL's.
Bob,
I found the info on the Muzzleloadermag.com website forum.
Go to the home page and click on "Campfireiscussion Forum"
From there, click on "Firearms".
The topic is called "Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken Rifle"
The last post was on 02 Nov 2009.
I hope this helps.
Craig

 

[segner05]

Well I ended up buying the Jed Smith rifle a few days after my last post. It's the one on the left in the picture.

My cousin and I shot it a few times at a family Christmas party and it looks promising!! It cleaned up very nice. I do have another question, as I can't hardly find any info on the web other than here...what is the thread size and where can I find a spare nipple?

Thanks for the help.

Craig

 

[paulvallandigham]

Call the mail order suppliers( see LINKS, here under Member Resources, up at the top of the index page) who sell nipples. They will tell you the correct thread size for your nipple. They know. The question gets asked lots of time, altho they may have to consult their own charts for that gun.

OR, you can take this nipple to your local hardware store, where they have thread gauges for both metric, and American Thread sizes. The staff at the store can help you determine the correct size. You might even buy such a gauge to take home with you! :thumbsup:

 

[windwalker_au]

Well I ended up buying the Jed Smith rifle a few days after my last post. It's the one on the left in the picture.

My cousin and I shot it a few times at a family Christmas party and it looks promising!! It cleaned up very nice. I do have another question, as I can't hardly find any info on the web other than here...what is the thread size and where can I find a spare nipple?

Thanks for the help.

Craig

remove the nipple from the uberti and try the nipple from your lyman dont force it if my memory is correct they are the same,uberti did do them again about five ago years for a limited run in .50 cal and they where 1/4 28 nipple thread,ps i have just emailed a friend who has one he will tell me the nipple thread size.
bernie :thumbsup:

 

[windwalker_au]

my friend says the nipple thread is 1/4-28.
bernie :thumbsup:

 

[MikeChapin]

...what is the thread size and where can I find a spare nipple?

Thanks for the help.

Craig

My Santa Fe takes a 6 -.75mm metric. I would imagine the Jed Smith would take the same. You can get them at TOW, Log Cabin or many other shops that specialize in black powder supplies.