54 cal Elk Load

[hunter thompson]

You are still in the kill zone...sometimes it hard telling whats going on why things are..might be the lock up on how your holding the gun,or the patch lube burn by ...try a different lube and seat the same pressure on the ball to powder..just a guess,IDEA FOR YA

 

[Greg Blackburn]

OK, someone here needs to do a "Paul Harrell-style" "meat target" to see how things look.

 

[brewer12345]

I have been fooling with a 58 New Englander and a 54 GPR trying to decide which one I want to carry for elk this year. The GPR is more accurate, but it is a lot heavier. Considering the amount we walk on these hunts, that is a significant consideration. The GPR shoots very well with 90 grains of OE 1.5 and 70 grains of 3F. The 58 shoots best with 80 grains of 2F or 70 grains of 3F. If you believe the ballistics tables in the Lyman Black Powder manual, there is little difference between any of these loads as far as energy at 100 yards. I chronoed the 58 with 75 grains of 1.5 OE and it was right about where the tables suggested.

So I think killing power is about the same and plenty for a broadside shot on a cow out to 100 yards. Just a question of how much rifle I feel like hauling up the hill.

 

[Fishslap]

Thanks brewer. I’ve hauled around my percussion GPR on two hunts with no issues. Killed a couple baby bulls...ya know...easier to pack out when you’re by yourself . I think most of my question is answered that I need to quit worrying about it and go with the 80 grain 2f load that’s accurate. I might play around with some 3f if time allows. My percussion gun bulls:

 

[Fishslap]

OK, someone here needs to do a "Paul Harrell-style" "meat target" to see how things look.

My grandfather says “minute of elk vitals, send it”.

 

[Greg Blackburn]

I'd carry the lighter weapon if you can shoot it well. Most of any hunt is not shooting.....shooting is the most important part but you only do that for less than a second. I don't think anyone gives recoil a thought when the quarry is in sight. Good luck!

 

[CoHiCntry]

Thanks brewer. I’ve hauled around my percussion GPR on two hunts with no issues. Killed a couple baby bulls...ya know...easier to pack out when you’re by yourself . I think most of my question is answered that I need to quit worrying about it and go with the 80 grain 2f load that’s accurate. I might play around with some 3f if time allows. My percussion gun bulls:

Love the elk pics... thanks for sharing!

 

[Nessmuck56]

Pour 90 grains of 3F down the barrel.....then a chunk of wasp nest..then your patched round ball....let it fly !

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Pour 90 grains of 3F down the barrel.....then a chunk of wasp nest..then your patched round ball....let it fly !

I think that 90 grains is the max with 3Fg, especially with that short Lyman barrel, and adding a bit of wasp nest is a GREAT idea, because I think your patches are starting to burn through, which is what is giving you the occasional inaccurate shot..., as it's not consistent leakage of gas around the ball.

LD

 

[Fishslap]

I think that 90 grains is the max with 3Fg, especially with that short Lyman barrel, and adding a bit of wasp nest is a GREAT idea, because I think your patches are starting to burn through, which is what is giving you the occasional inaccurate shot..., as it's not consistent leakage of gas around the ball.

View attachment 40104

LD

Thanks, this is good advice. I don’t think that’s burn through though, it looks like tearing from sharp rifling. It gets better after each range session.

 

[Fishslap]

I'd carry the lighter weapon if you can shoot it well. Most of any hunt is not shooting.....shooting is the most important part but you only do that for less than a second. I don't think anyone gives recoil a thought when the quarry is in sight. Good luck!

Thanks. This thread was about finding an accurate load with enough energy with my flintlock (my other muzzleloader is exactly the same gpr but percussion). I’ve killed a pile of elk with my 300 win mag so recoil isn’t a factor for me. The flintlock was just losing accuracy at higher charges.

 

[brewer12345]

I'd carry the lighter weapon if you can shoot it well. Most of any hunt is not shooting.....shooting is the most important part but you only do that for less than a second. I don't think anyone gives recoil a thought when the quarry is in sight. Good luck!

I think my hunt is likely to be camping out around water sources. The heat is unrelenting and water will be the scarce resource. So I am leaning toward the heavier but much more accurate gpr.

 

[Greg Blackburn]

Well man, you are the one with experience in this sort of hunting, so whatever you think. I've never seen "the west."

 

[russellshaffer]

I don't think a wad could possibly hurt anything and it does keep the patch lube away from the powder when the rifle is loaded for an extended time.

 

[pab1]

@Fishslap, were the groups on the targets you posted all shot on the same day? I find I only shoot well (especially with heavier charges) for so long. As the range session goes on I start to get sloppy and lose focus. The second target looks like that might be the issue.

You had three shots touching just to the right of the circle with one shot in it. The low shots aren't off by much and even the high shots would be in the vitals assuming you're going for a heart/lung shot. The main reason I would prefer the higher charges is for the increased impact velocity on longer shots. A .54 punches a big hole but I prefer to get some expansion to create a larger wound channel.

With my percussion GPR I average 1450fps with a 70gr charge of FFF Goex. 85 grains of Goex averaged about 1550fps and 95 grains came in about 100fps faster near 1650fps. All velocity readings were with the chronograph 11 yards from the muzzle. A ball sheds velocity fast and while there might not be much difference between the impact velocity at 100 yards between the light and heavier load, I would still want the higher velocity load. This gun is also more accurate with FFF than with FF.

Another benefit is that the heavier charge will shoot flatter. This can help if your estimated distance is off a bit. Using a ballistics calculator there doesn't seem to be much difference in drop between a 70 and 95 grain load at 100 yards. I definitely see a big difference between the two when I'm shooting. It seems much more than the ballistic charts say it should be.

 

[Fishslap]

@Fishslap, were the groups on the targets you posted all shot on the same day? I find I only shoot well (especially with heavier charges) for so long. As the range session goes on I start to get sloppy and lose focus. The second target looks like that might be the issue.

You had three shots touching just to the right of the circle with one shot in it. The low shots aren't off by much and even the high shots would be in the vitals assuming you're going for a heart/lung shot. The main reason I would prefer the higher charges is for the increased impact velocity on longer shots. A .54 punches a big hole but I prefer to get some expansion to create a larger wound channel.

With my percussion GPR I average 1450fps with a 70gr charge of FFF Goex. 85 grains of Goex averaged about 1550fps and 95 grains came in about 100fps faster near 1650fps. All velocity readings were with the chronograph 11 yards from the muzzle. A ball sheds velocity fast and while there might not be much difference between the impact velocity at 100 yards between the light and heavier load, I would still want the higher velocity load. This gun is also more accurate with FFF than with FF.

Another benefit is that the heavier charge will shoot flatter. This can help if your estimated distance is off a bit. Using a ballistics calculator there doesn't seem to be much difference in drop between a 70 and 95 grain load at 100 yards. I definitely see a big difference between the two when I'm shooting. It seems much more than the ballistic charts say it should be.

This is all good info and advice. Yep, same day of shooting. I also get fatigue after a while and it can for sure be an issue, especially with my eyes even though I have great vision. The target with larger groups was earlier in the day, the four shot group was later when I decided to go back to the lighter more accurate load that I developed from a previous range session.

 

[Fishslap]

I don't think a wad could possibly hurt anything and it does keep the patch lube away from the powder when the rifle is loaded for an extended time.

What do you guys recommend for an over wad? Do you put it down just in the muzzle then patch/ball right on top and drive it down all at once? I’m running out of time if I need to order some wads. TOW has some dry felt wool wads in 54 cal I could order, or I could try the craft store and cut some by hand at first and order a punch. I didn’t check October country, the other store I like to give money to...

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I don’t think that’s burn through though, it looks like tearing from sharp rifling. It gets better after each range session

"Cutting Patches" is also not a good thing.

LD

 

[mooman76]

Cutting patches should go away after shooting awhile. JB bore past with help smooth the edges some.

 

[pab1]

What do you guys recommend for an over wad? Do you put it down just in the muzzle then patch/ball right on top and drive it down all at once? I’m running out of time if I need to order some wads. TOW has some dry felt wool wads in 54 cal I could order, or I could try the craft store and cut some by hand at first and order a punch. I didn’t check October country, the other store I like to give money to...

I would head to the range and try the heavier charges first and see how they group. If it gives you a decent group I wouldn't bother with a wad or card. They might result in slightly smaller groups but its one more step that usually isn't needed.

If you decide to use a wad or card I seat it separately. They can seal the bore and make seating a prb over them a little more time consuming due to trapped air. Make sure the prb is completely seated on the wad.

I saw you said you were using "mink oil" for lube. I'm guessing this is Trappers Pure Mink Oil, not mink oil leather treatment. I have four GPRs and they all like the same .530 ball, .018 pillow ticking patch that you're using lubed with either Trappers Pure Mink Oil or Bumblin' Bear Grease. I use the TPMO these days due to the high cost of BBG.