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.44 cal Piettas

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RKSmithy

32 Cal.
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Jan 6, 2012
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I just bought a .44 cal 1851 Confederate Navy and a .44 cal 1858 New Army from a guy for $80 (I don't think he knew what he had). Both are in great condition. I have cleaned them up and am ready to fire. Problem: I know virtually nothing about black powder revolvers. What kind of black powder to use, size of ball (there seems to be at least 2 different sizes of .44 cal balls), size of caps, patches vs. lube, the whole nine yards. Can anyone out there give me a quick primer on what to buy so I get the right supplies? Thanks a heap!!
 
I'm using .454 round balls and 25 gr of 3fg Goex in my 2 51 Navy Piettas. And sometimes in my 1860 Army steel frame also.
In the 1860 and my 1858 I also load 30 grains FFFG with the ball and 25 to 30 behind a 200 grain conical bullet. I haven't ever shot benchrested but I guarantee you that if you are the size of a pie plate out to 50 yards, you will get hit. I hope to really test some Sun.
 
Welcome to the forum. :)

Your pistols can be loaded with real black powder or any of the granular synthetic black powders like Pyrodex, Seven7seven, Shockie's Gold or similar. Some work better than others and real black powder works best.

Under NO condition should you ever load any smokeless powder of any kind.

The guns usually shoot round lead balls best and these are loaded without a patch of any kind.

If your using a .451, .453 or .457 diameter ball none of them will fit freely into the chambers.
After loading the powder charge, the ball is forced down into the chamber by the loading lever.
This should shear a circular ring of lead off of the outside of the ball where it meets the chamber.
If properly swaged, the ball will seal the chamber mouth and those in the adjacent chamber should stay in place while the gun is being fired.

Some folks like to use lubricated fiber wads between the powder and the bottom of the ball. This both lubricates the bore and serves to prevent flames from the chamber being fired from sneaking past a ball in an adjacent chamber and causing it to fire. (chain fire)


Your gun will probably work with either #10 or #11 percussion caps.

With a steel framed revolver you cannot accedently over load it because the chamber will only hold a safe amount of powder.
When loading the powder, leave about 1 balls diameter of room above the powder charge for the ball.

If your pistols have a brass frame (the part that the cylinder rests against or in) you should reduce the powder charge.
Although brass framed pistols are safe to shoot the power of a full powder charge can damage the frame over a period of time.

Most C&B revolver shooters find that a smaller than 'full' load produces the best accuracy.

Although the chamber will hold more, a powder charge of around 25 grains works well in a .44 caliber pistol.

One thing to pay particular attention to when shooting is the caps on the loaded chambers.
They must stay in place at all times until they are fired.

If a cap falls off of the nipple when another chamber is fired, the flames from the rear of the firing chamber can find its way thru the nipple hole. If this happens, that chamber will also fire.

Have fun. :)
 
I shoot .454 hornady balls over a wonder wad and 30 grains of fff. I got a 2 3/8" group at 25 yards with that combo.
 
i have a pietta 1858 and my favorite load so far is:

1. 30 grains FFF powder (25 grains for 777 or schuetzen due to small grain size or higher pressure)
2. dry 44 cal wad (this is to seperate the lube from the powder)
3. lubed 44 cal wad (thats right, two wads)
4. .454 hornady round ball
5. (optional)a layer of lube over the ball. (extra lube can lead to extra clean bores)

i have been using wal-mart brand vegetable shortening as lube. also ive found Remington #10 caps to fit the best on the pietta 1858.
 
Same here - 454 ball, over lubed wad, and 30gr American Pioneer.

Haven't played with different powers yet.

But will shoot about 3" (maybe a little better) if I do my part.
 
I love shooting mine and I am sure you will like shooting yours as well. Lot of good advice already posted. Listen to zonie ! That guy knows his "stuff" :hatsoff:
Nilo
 
I have a Pietta 1851 in .44

I load it with 27 grains of 3f, 20 grains of corn meal a felt wad and a .454 round ball. This can be a tight fit so getting it packed good and tight is a must or your going to have the bullet not seat far enough down to allow for the cylender to advance. Top off with a smidge of bore butter over each ball. With the wad and the corn meal in the chamber the bore butter is not to prevent it from jump fireing but to just keep the barrel nice and slick. (poor fitting caps have been the cause of the only jump fire I have had. Colt dragoon knock off blowing off 4 chambers at once was a scary moment. I spent a good day fixing that mistake.)
The 1851 came to me new in the box yet the nipples were not uniform at all. 3 of them I must use the #11 caps and the other 3 I need the # 10 caps.

I just went out and got a new set of nipples for it but I haven't had a chance to put them on yet.
 
I have been shooting black powder for eight years, but only have limited experience with BP revolvers. I have a Pietta 1851 Confederate Navy brass revolver chambered in .44 Cal. It shoots pretty well. I made a new front sight for it, and it is more accurate. In an effort to get more accuracy and extend the life of my gun, last week I changed my load from 25 grains fffg to 17 grains fffg. I did this after reading my instruction manual for the first time in several years. It lists the minimum load at 12 grains fffg, and the maximum load at 15 grains. I tried 12 grains and 13 grains, but the plunger would not seat the ball against the powder at those levels without filler. Seventeen grains seems to be the smallest load I can use in this gun without filler.
After experimenting with .451" and .454" balls, I settled on a load of 17 grains fffg Goex powder, a .454" round ball with the sprue forward, and a Remington #10 cap. (I uses Tresso nipples.) I covered the balls with 100% bacon grease.
The velocity average of six shots was 806 fps. My three-shot group at 25 yards was about 2.75 inches. I was able to ring the 50 yard gong. I figured the drop at 50 yard was just over 3 inches. At 100 yards, it is a little more than 20 inches.
QUESTIONS:
1.) What advantages would I get from using a filler and/or a wad?
2.) Why would I need more than 17 grains of fffg powder for target shooting?
3.) Would using 25 grains or more of fffg shorten the life of my revolver?
I look forward to your input. I value the experience of so many of you on this forum. Thanks in advance for your help.
 
Filler is good because it brings the bullet closser to the barrel of the pistol. The idea is to try and get the ball just flush with the cylender. This will improve acuracy.
Also a goodly amount of filler and wading will help prevent chain fires. (they are a PITA when they happen, not to mention unsafe)

if you are target shooting you don't need more than 20 grains, however...I keep a ball and cap revolver loaded for bandits in my home. I practice with full charges because if I ever need to shoot someone with it, I want to be able to put the bullet where I want it. A lite powder charge acts differantly than a moderate or heavy charge.

My load out lately has been 27 grains of 3f powder, 10-15 grains of corn meal (still working this part out) and a prelubed oxyoke wad all toped with a .454 round ball. It can get tight, so I have to be sure to compress everything properly or the ball will stick out of the cylender and that is a problem because the cylender can not advance, even with just a tiny smidgen of the round ball sticking out.

Edit: oh yeah, I also put a touch of bore butter on the chambers. With as much filler that I put in my chambers I don't know that it is needed, but I do it out of habbit.
 
Thanks. Makes good sense. Like a bolt rifle needs the bullet to be right next to the forcing cone. I get it now. I'll try my 17 grains with the filler method you mentioned. If it works well, I'll stay with it--as is. If not, I'll work up my load to the best accuracy using your filler method. I'll report back another day. I'm going to the hospital now to see my father-in-law.
 
That's a good point too, cynthialee. I have seen loads on the Goex load chart -- up to 40 grains. The velocity they list for 25 grains of fffg is only 730 fps with whatever (unknown) test gun they use. My particular gun is getting more velocity than that with 17 grains, but I have not tested those loads against each other for accuracy. I might find that the stout loads expand into the bore better than the lighter loads. It looks like I have some more testing to do, huh? :stir: That's good. More testing means more shooting! :grin: That equals FUN!
 
Because your pistol is a brass framed type I suggest that you keep your powder loads under 26 grains.

The problem with using powder loads greater than that in a brass framed gun is the barrel arbor that the cylinder rotates on has been known to pull loose when heavy powder loads are used.

Another area of weakness is the frames cast in recoil ring right behind the cylinder.
Because brass is ductile, repeated hammering of the cylinder against that area of the frame when the gun is fired with a heavy powder load can damage it.

The steel framed revolvers don't have these potential problems.
 
Thank you, zonie. That's just what I needed to know in order to decide if I should try stouter loads. I'd much rather keep my "piece" in one piece for many years than to squeeze a few more fps out of her. I have six .40 acp brass cases cut down to hold exactly 17 grains of fffg Goex. I'm going to experiment with that loading with some filler and check the accuracy. I would expect the velocity to go down slightly as the ball gets closer to the forcing cone, with some improvement in accuracy. After I find an accurate combination, then I'll chronograph it for the record and check the ballistics.
I am truly amazed at the accuracy of these revolvers out to to 50 feet. I would like to find an ideal, accurate load with this .44 Cal. 1851 Confederate Navy. Next, I'd like to be able to afford a more authentic .36 Cal. some day.
 
Re: Nipples. I went through a period when I had problems with caps. I eventually bought a set of nipples. I believe they are Tresso nipples. I measured each of them at the base and at the open end. I also measured the overall length. They were very close, but not exactly equal to each other. (The original nipples were way off, and the hole was too big, causing hammeer blow-back.)
I wrapped the threads of my new nipples with masking tape and chucked each one in my drill, starting with the one that measured the smallest diameter. (I didn't keep the numbers.) I used 400 emory cloth to get a consistent texture and a size that worked well with Remington #10 caps. Then I took a new measurement. One at a time, I took each of the other nipples and chucked them in my drill, and spun them with the emory cloth untill they all measured the same amount as the first one. I blued mine, but I don't know if that's really necessary.
When I got finished, I tried several different caps, hoping the Remington #10 caps would be the best, because they fit in my Cash Capper. They did. The result is that I haven't had a hang-up of any kind with my caps in a long time.
One more thing: I did the hammer fix that I found on this forum. I filed away metal from the hammer where it contacts the caps. I had read that the hammer should not hit the nipples when dry-firing (which should not be done in the first place). It turned out that my hammer was over-traveling. Now that the hammer contacts the caps squarely, and the caps have a nice, tight fit, I have not problems with caps not going off, splitting, getting stuck, or impeding cylinder rotation. Also, it FEELS like my loads are more consistently ignited.
 
Boy, O boy, you've done it now. You get one or two of these things, get a handle on how they work and the next thing you know they've taken over the closet. You'll start with the basics but soon you'll be experimenting with cutting your own wads with different felts, making lube, varying charge weights and propellants, varying ball material and shape, cap brands, and generally fooling around with all that stuff like it's really important. Ask me how I know :shocked2:
 
I garentee you I ain't doing half this stuff. If the nipple don't work, I'm using another.
You gotta be obsessed to chuck them in a drill and sand them down. Sorry boys, I am not that old fashioned and Dan'l Boon didn't have a drill. :surrender:
 
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