42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foot Uniforms c. 1757-1765

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BJamesBeck

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I made my cartridge boxes with 7/8" holes so the cartridges wrapped on my 3/4" formers would readily slip fit. For an officer's cartridge box, I would make the holes 1/8" larger than the expected paper cartridge diameter.
I will definitely keep that in mind when I get to that point! I have seen references to enlisted men and officers alike in the 42nd carrying powder horns, but I believe that was mostly in reference to the Light Infantry companies. Apparently sometime around 1758 ten of the best marksmen in the Light company were issued rifles, which would probably explain the occasional mention of horns in the sources.
 

Artificer

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I will definitely keep that in mind when I get to that point! I have seen references to enlisted men and officers alike in the 42nd carrying powder horns, but I believe that was mostly in reference to the Light Infantry companies. Apparently sometime around 1758 ten of the best marksmen in the Light company were issued rifles, which would probably explain the occasional mention of horns in the sources.
Bryan,

Here's another reason for the "Light Coy's" to have powder horns.

1614893940349.png


Detail of a sketch of the back of a light infantry private in the 69th Regiment, 1778
by Philippe Jacques de Loutherbourg, R.A. (1740-1812)
© Anne S. K. Brown Military Collection, Brown University Library​
Like their battalion and grenadier soldier counterparts, light infantry soldiers received 18-hole cartridge box assemblies with their firelocks. In addition, according to the light infantry uniform regulations of 4 March 1771, light infantry soldier accoutrements provided by the colonels of regiments were to consist of "a small cartridge box to contain 9 rounds in one row, to be worn before with a belt of tanned leather round the waist," and a powder horn and leather ball-bag for "running ball" firing. Of course, both cartridge boxes could not be worn around the waist; this sketch demonstrates how the 18-hole government issue box was worn over the right shoulder, to rest on the left side. Alternate views of this soldier, and similar views of a light infantry private of the 6th Regiment from the same encampment, show that the 9-hole box was worn around the waist. It is important to note that none of the battalion nor grenadier soldiers were depicted wearing cartridge boxes.

British Rank & File Arms, 1768-1784 (62ndregiment.org)

Gus
 

BJamesBeck

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Bryan,

Here's another reason for the "Light Coy's" to have powder horns.

View attachment 67249

Detail of a sketch of the back of a light infantry private in the 69th Regiment, 1778
by Philippe Jacques de Loutherbourg, R.A. (1740-1812)
© Anne S. K. Brown Military Collection, Brown University Library​
Like their battalion and grenadier soldier counterparts, light infantry soldiers received 18-hole cartridge box assemblies with their firelocks. In addition, according to the light infantry uniform regulations of 4 March 1771, light infantry soldier accoutrements provided by the colonels of regiments were to consist of "a small cartridge box to contain 9 rounds in one row, to be worn before with a belt of tanned leather round the waist," and a powder horn and leather ball-bag for "running ball" firing. Of course, both cartridge boxes could not be worn around the waist; this sketch demonstrates how the 18-hole government issue box was worn over the right shoulder, to rest on the left side. Alternate views of this soldier, and similar views of a light infantry private of the 6th Regiment from the same encampment, show that the 9-hole box was worn around the waist. It is important to note that none of the battalion nor grenadier soldiers were depicted wearing cartridge boxes.

British Rank & File Arms, 1768-1784 (62ndregiment.org)

Gus
Makes sense!
 

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Makes sense!
Something else from that website:

1614895419593.png


These are some of the "Tann'd" or black leather items issued by British Ordnance for every Infantry Arm. The "stand of arms" also included a bayonet fitted to the arm and "Tann'd" Bayonet Scabbard and Musket or Carbine Sling.

Oh and THANKS AGAIN to Grenadier 1758 for showing me how to do such copy/pasting of pictures!!

Gus
 

BJamesBeck

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Speaking of @Grenadier1758 , I wonder if he has any thoughts on my wool post on the previous page.... Know of anyone that has made a regimental coat out of wool from Wm. Booth Draper?
 

Grenadier1758

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I don't know of anyone that has material of regimental wool from William Booth, Draper. At least no one has expressly stated the source of their wool. I do respect his research and would expect that material from him would be better than acceptable. I have bought material from him for other projects and I have nothing but praise for him.

As a side anecdote, I have made my shirts according to pattern available from either Beth Gilgun or Garret's "Rural Pennsylvania Clothing". I was talking with him about techniques of sewing the clothes and I wanted to show off my hand sewn button holes and other fine stitching. He took a good look at my cuffs and with great seriousness informed me that I should have wrist bands of about 1" instead of the 3" cuffs I had made based on the patterns. I knew that I should have had bands before he expressed his opinion, but I just did not want to have shorter sleeves pulling away from my wrists. I have newer shirts with wrist bands, but I still have some shirts with the wider cuffs. The change from bands to cuffs occurred about the time of the AWI. By the way I passed the jury inspection for the Trade Faire at Fort de Chartres. He still rolls his eyes if he sees my shirt cuffs.
 

Grenadier1758

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The First of Foot has based our cartridge boxes based on items in the Museum at Edinburg Castle in Scotland. The Belly Box has 18 holes as the side pouch originally carried grenades. Not willing to make changes, when the grenadiers were no longer required to carry grenades, the insert for the cartridges was drilled for 20 cartridges. Yes, our belly box is red when most of the other belly boxes were black. The waist box in Edinburg Castle is red. We do not have the cartouche on our belly box or cartridge pouch.

Shooting Kit.JPG


And yes, we do have the loops for the belly box on the front of the box. The nails have to be carefully placed so the nails are fully in the wood and do not penetrate the cartridge recesses.
 

Artificer

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The First of Foot has based our cartridge boxes based on items in the Museum at Edinburg Castle in Scotland. The Belly Box has 18 holes as the side pouch originally carried grenades. Not willing to make changes, when the grenadiers were no longer required to carry grenades, the insert for the cartridges was drilled for 20 cartridges. Yes, our belly box is red when most of the other belly boxes were black. The waist box in Edinburg Castle is red. We do not have the cartouche on our belly box or cartridge pouch.

View attachment 67293

And yes, we do have the loops for the belly box on the front of the box. The nails have to be carefully placed so the nails are fully in the wood and do not penetrate the cartridge recesses.
May I ask the width of the "shoulder belt" on which your match case is attached?

Gus
 

BJamesBeck

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I don't know of anyone that has material of regimental wool from William Booth, Draper. At least no one has expressly stated the source of their wool. I do respect his research and would expect that material from him would be better than acceptable. I have bought material from him for other projects and I have nothing but praise for him.

As a side anecdote, I have made my shirts according to pattern available from either Beth Gilgun or Garret's "Rural Pennsylvania Clothing". I was talking with him about techniques of sewing the clothes and I wanted to show off my hand sewn button holes and other fine stitching. He took a good look at my cuffs and with great seriousness informed me that I should have wrist bands of about 1" instead of the 3" cuffs I had made based on the patterns. I knew that I should have had bands before he expressed his opinion, but I just did not want to have shorter sleeves pulling away from my wrists. I have newer shirts with wrist bands, but I still have some shirts with the wider cuffs. The change from bands to cuffs occurred about the time of the AWI. By the way I passed the jury inspection for the Trade Faire at Fort de Chartres. He still rolls his eyes if he sees my shirt cuffs.
Maybe I will try to get a swatch of the "crimson" from Wm. Booth and a swatch of the "mock scarlet" and the "superfine scarlet" from Najecki and compare.

If that crimson can pass the eyeball test that would save SO much money on making the regimental. It's just hard to tell exactly what the colors are in the pictures, but they sure look close, and with a bit of sun fading I doubt anyone would know the difference.
 
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Bryanbekk, you remark the the correct reproduction of the 42nd coarse kilt looks washed out etc. It is not. You have to remember the dyes used in the days that concern you were natural, and not the intense modern chemical dyes used to color the dark modern version of Black Watch. The ancient version of Black Watch is the modern version you want.

I suggest you try Xmarksthescot.com to learn more. There are tartan and military experts there.
 

Artificer

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Sure, you can ask.

Its 3" wide.
Thank you. I'm trying to get an idea on how wide the strap of Bryan's Baldric should or may be without getting too wide, that it is cumbersome.

So correct me if I'm wrong, that 3" wide shoulder belt is what holds up your sword? If so, do you have any thoughts on if it is wider than it need be to hold a sword?

Gus
 

toot

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Bryan,

Here's another reason for the "Light Coy's" to have powder horns.

View attachment 67249

Detail of a sketch of the back of a light infantry private in the 69th Regiment, 1778
by Philippe Jacques de Loutherbourg, R.A. (1740-1812)
© Anne S. K. Brown Military Collection, Brown University Library​
Like their battalion and grenadier soldier counterparts, light infantry soldiers received 18-hole cartridge box assemblies with their firelocks. In addition, according to the light infantry uniform regulations of 4 March 1771, light infantry soldier accoutrements provided by the colonels of regiments were to consist of "a small cartridge box to contain 9 rounds in one row, to be worn before with a belt of tanned leather round the waist," and a powder horn and leather ball-bag for "running ball" firing. Of course, both cartridge boxes could not be worn around the waist; this sketch demonstrates how the 18-hole government issue box was worn over the right shoulder, to rest on the left side. Alternate views of this soldier, and similar views of a light infantry private of the 6th Regiment from the same encampment, show that the 9-hole box was worn around the waist. It is important to note that none of the battalion nor grenadier soldiers were depicted wearing cartridge boxes.

British Rank & File Arms, 1768-1784 (62ndregiment.org)

Gus
that is fascinating. thank you for sharining.
 

BJamesBeck

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Bryanbekk, you remark the the correct reproduction of the 42nd coarse kilt looks washed out etc. It is not. You have to remember the dyes used in the days that concern you were natural, and not the intense modern chemical dyes used to color the dark modern version of Black Watch. The ancient version of Black Watch is the modern version you want.

I suggest you try Xmarksthescot.com to learn more. There are tartan and military experts there.
I'm not saying it is actually washed out just that, in comparison to the modern, that's how it looks. And I'm not so sure the natural dyes are necessarily a reason for the colors to be less vibrant. Pretty vibrant colors are achievable with natural dyes. Again, not saying you're wrong just saying I still haven't found any concrete evidence on this. But I have since developed a plan for my plaid since your last post.

Is there a thread on xmarksthescot you could point me to specifically? I have read through quite a few threads on that forum and haven't found anything directly pertaining to a 1750s-1760s tartan or with substantial information backing up the different tones.
 

BJamesBeck

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Thank you. I'm trying to get an idea on how wide the strap of Bryan's Baldric should or may be without getting too wide, that it is cumbersome.

So correct me if I'm wrong, that 3" wide shoulder belt is what holds up your sword? If so, do you have any thoughts on if it is wider than it need be to hold a sword?

Gus
I did get that sword ordered last night, so when it arrives we should be able to make some more progress with the baldric as well.

The sword is listed as 3lbs 4.8oz. Just for reference. I'm assuming that doesn't include the weight of the scabbard.
 

Grenadier1758

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Thank you. I'm trying to get an idea on how wide the strap of Bryan's Baldric should or may be without getting too wide, that it is cumbersome.

So correct me if I'm wrong, that 3" wide shoulder belt is what holds up your sword? If so, do you have any thoughts on if it is wider than it need be to hold a sword?

Gus
The three inch wide shoulder strap holds up my cartridge pouch. My hangar (sword) is held up by a waist belt. A frog for the hangar and bayonet is on the belt. I have two belts. One is for the sword and bayonet and the other is for the belly box. The cartridge pouch hangs on my right side.

1614949986691.png
 

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The three inch wide shoulder strap holds up my cartridge pouch. My hangar (sword) is held up by a waist belt. A frog for the hangar and bayonet is on the belt. I have two belts. One is for the sword and bayonet and the other is for the belly box. The cartridge pouch hangs on my right side.
Ah........I see now. Thank you! I had looked at your Avatar picture and was trying to count "shoulder belts" and something didn't add up. I didn't realize you had your Hanger and Bayonet in a double frog suspended from a waist belt. (That's an interesting hilt on your Hanger, BTW.) I've made three double frogs for waist belts over the years, but never saw a Hanger in one, including my own. I had planned to get a hanger for mine, but it wasn't right for an impression I did, so I put my tomahawk where the Hanger is supposed to go.

OK, I just have to also ask, does your shoulder belt for your cartouche pouch have just one or two buckles? I'm more familiar with ones that have two buckles, but that wasn't correct for every cartouche pouch in the period.

Bryan,

I was a little concerned about a 3 inch wide strap on your Baldric until Grenadier showed this picture of his Cartouche Pouch strap. Now it doesn't look too wide, after all.

Gus
 

Artificer

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Oh, in case anyone wonders why I keep using "Cartouche" instead of "Cartridge" before either a Pouch or Box, it's because I have more written original quotes with the word "Cartouche." I'm trying to get used to saying/writing Cartouche more often for that reason. However, Cartridge before either a Pouch or Box is also perfectly correct in the period.

Gus
 

Grenadier1758

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Actually, @Artificer, I have three buckles on the Cartridge/Cartouche pouch strap. I'll look for a picture.

The grenadier company of the First of Foot had basket hilt hangars. There is one pictured in Gale's book, "A Soldier Like Way". We had the hilts made of iron and the one on Gale's book is of brass.
 

Auldjin

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I would normally avoid asking this question because I would think it is unlikely that anyone would have an answer but I have been so impressed with the amount of research that people on this forum have conducted that I will ask. What is the oldest surviving example of Black Watch tartan that has survived (actual cloth not an illustration)?
 

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