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.36 Caliber Conical Bullets

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10XPistol

32 Cal
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Apr 25, 2020
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I'm starting a project. I want to make paper cartridges for my Pietta built 1851 Navy percussion revolver using conical bullets but I've hit a snag. The mold I'm using is an older one. I don't know if it's an older reproduction or an original. It has two cavities. One cavity is a round ball measuring .375". The other cavity is a conical bullet. The heal of the bullet measures .376", the body measures .388", and the chambers of my 1851 Navy are .366"... The bullet does not fit in the chamber. I have been advised that the bullet heal should in fact fit into the chamber to start.

My thinking is the mold is bad (likely), or the chambers are undersized (which I kind of doubt). If anyone here knows more about the measurements please help by weighing in. I would appreciate it. Thanks
 

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Yes you do want a bullet with a heel (shank) that will slip into the cylinder so that it aligns straight to the bore and doesn't go in cocked to one side..

A lot could be going on with your mold. I wouldn't call it bad. If it is an old mold, it may be made for an original gun, which had different dimensions. At any rate, .375 is the correct diameter for a ball for the 1851

The Italian replicas are notorious for having small cylinder chambers and many ream them out for the sake of accuracy alone. That is something to consider. I would first confirm your bore diameter if you haven't already.

You can also make paper cartridges with a ball as well.


That said, this outfit sells bullet molds expressly for making paper cartridges:

http://erasgonebullets.webstarts.com/
They have a number of videos as well on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCW2_HbBV6tCboZvo-vUoFPA
Mike Beliveau a member here also has a vid on making ,36 paper cartridges



There is also a lot of info out there on swaging down the bullet shanks to fit you revolver with everything from proprietary swaging dies from makers like Corbin, to using a modified pair of diagonal wire cutters with the proper sized hole drilled in them, (Which could cheaply help you use you current mold perhaps).

Hope this helps.
 
Thank you TNGhost. I took a minute to measure my mold. I removed the sprue plate and measured the molds opening which would be the heal of the bullet. It measured .365". Pretty much the same as my chambers. So I'm thinking now that the mold, or the lead, or both maybe.. was too hot and the bullets came out too big because of that. I'm going to cast some more and try to keep the heat down on the mold this time and see what differences I get.
 
If the opening at the bullets heel measured .365, the bullet heel will be smaller than that when it is cast.
It is physically impossible for the casting to be larger than the mold unless the mold wasn't closed all the way.

My experience with the type of mold you show in the picture is, they were made primarily as a decoration to be used in cased handgun sets. That's not saying they won't make cast bullets but it is saying, don't expect to see the quality of bullets that a precision mold can produce.
 
Get an Eras gone mold. My mold is for the Colt Factory cartridge works bullet and the heel loads nicely in both a Pietta 1851 navy and also in a Uberti 1851 Navy. It is a bullet weight of 125 grains so it takes up more space in the chamber and uses a slightly smaller powder charge, but hits CAS targets with a resounding KLINK.
 
Pietta is well known for grossly undersized chambers. Uberti’s Pocket Police has 0.372” chambers. I’d want a .380” ball. The grooves are 0.376”. Still undersized.
 
All I know is my pair of Pietta Capt. Schaeffer 1851 Navy replicas, a pair of Uberti 1961 Navy revolvers and a Uberti1851 Navy all shoot that Eras Gone Colt Cartridge Company bullet with a tight fit and hits hard where I point it.
Understand these are CAS gunz or just fun for can rolling or plinking not serious target revolvers.
Be assured they do not claim to be NMLRA competition target guns.
They are just fun guns that are sufficiently accurate to be fun to shoot.
If I want precision out comes the custom 1911 that shoots holes in holes every time.
That is satisfying, but not as much of a challenge or fun. as the 4" barrel primitive sighted Capt. Schaeffer 1851 Navy Colt.
And we all know that the smokessomewhatless stuff is just a fad and will not last.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk Stagner
 
Got a .40 caliber 1851 because loving the handling of a 1851 I couldn't resist trying out what Colt was developing before the war demands dictated what he produced. Now it's my favorite. The 1851 is as fine a hand gun as I'll ever like to shoot. The .36 caliber 1851 is simply a treat. Perhaps one with the barrel turned to minimal diameter could have improved handling? Eh, maybe.
 
There is some evidence that certain antimonial casting alloys will increase in size after casting with age, particularly if the alloy contains some amount, however tiny of copper. Pure lead, not so much, and pure lead is what you should be using. Temperature can also have an impact on bullet size, with hotter temperatures dropping larger bullets

That said, I tend to agree with Zonie, the type of mold you have are not known for their precision or consistency, and modern molds like Eras Gone By and Lee are much more reliably consistent. A bit of flash on the inside wall of the mold outside of the cavity could surely cause an oversize problem, maybe not even that noticeable to an untrained eye. A better mold has less problems of that type with proper use.

Running ball or casting any bullet is as much an art form as it is a science and there is a large amount of both involved as well as technique. A good mold, kept at an even suitable temperature, with a sound repeatable procedure will yield the best bullets. Same goes for the temperature and make up of your melt consistency in both means consistent boolits.

Actually a serviceable, though not particularly historically accurate, paper cartridge bullet with a heal can be made from a Lee round ball mold by running a drill bit of .365 or so into one of their .375 RB molds.

Give your mold another run, paying particular attention to debris or flash on the inside surfaces, and how they mate up at each closing, and you may be able to turn out some good bullets.
 
Thanks for the input everyone. Upon closer examination of the Bullets and the mold I’m getting some sort of rib on the heal of the bullet. It looks like over fill or something but the mold seems to have it in there too so this mold is obviously not worth my time anymore.

Out of frustration and determination I tried making some paper cartridges using just round balls and they came out alright. Historically accurate.. probably not but they are a cartridge and they load alright.
 

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10X, try using Search. There's lots and lots and lots of previous posts regarding your area of interest. Pages of posts. It took me several days to cover just some of the information on paper cartridges for revolvers good folks have shared here. The links to sources will add another day or two to one's study session!
 
Thanks for the input everyone. Upon closer examination of the Bullets and the mold I’m getting some sort of rib on the heal of the bullet. It looks like over fill or something but the mold seems to have it in there too so this mold is obviously not worth my time anymore.

Out of frustration and determination I tried making some paper cartridges using just round balls and they came out alright. Historically accurate.. probably not but they are a cartridge and they load alright.


Those look like some pretty nicely done paper cartridges. Definitely worth your time and effort. $15 worth retail:

https://www.buffaloarms.com/44-caliber-revolver-six-combustible-paper-cartridges-cpc44
Don't be too disappointed about the conical not working out, I wouldn't consider a roundball cartridge historically inaccurate either. There are plenty of instances of their historical usage.
 
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When I was a teenager, one of my experiments was cigarette-paper cartridges for my .36 brass navy. So I shot into a log below the cabin, and went to eat lunch. My Dad came out and said "Boy, why's that log on fire?" Thus ended my foray into paper cartridge making..... Tinhorn
 
Thanks for the input everyone. Upon closer examination of the Bullets and the mold I’m getting some sort of rib on the heal of the bullet. It looks like over fill or something but the mold seems to have it in there too so this mold is obviously not worth my time anymore.

Out of frustration and determination I tried making some paper cartridges using just round balls and they came out alright. Historically accurate.. probably not but they are a cartridge and they load alright.

Those cartridges look pretty close to mine. Good job!

Might take em and with a small bowl with melted BP lube ... dunk the ball end and gently shake ... turn ball/lubed cartridge uprite ... ball end up ... allow to completely cool, then you have a self lubricated black powder paper cartridge that is pretty historic and shoot great ... very easy to load and are fun to mess with.

Done like I do em ... I am not sure TIME WISE that a feller could clean, reload and shoot in the newer SAA ... metal cartridges faster then using these paper cartridges overall time comparison.

Always wanted to do a timed test of 25 or 50 cartridges comparing ;

forming, filling, ball'ing and lubing and loading these paper cartridges

to

cleaning, sizing, belling, priming, powdering, bullet'ing and crimping loading and shooting... with the added task of removing and keeping track of the empty's.

I betcha that this comparison would be very close to each other timewise ... AND ... way cheaper on the paper percussion cartridges

Hmmmmm ... sounds like time to put the experiment to the test and report back in a proper posting of itz own.

Maybe two or three or more could carefully time each step for each step and report a comparison ... then we could run comparison between folks that do and report to get a basis more rounded instead of one person only that might be handier in one area then another.

Might be interesting?
 
If you want a good .36 bullet to make cartridges I would recommend the Eras Gone Colt Factory 125 grain bullet.
The molds are made by Lee and are an exact replica of the civil war bullet. It has a nice heel and loads easily in my .36 Colt Navy. I am not connected with Eras gone, but am a very satisfies customer.
Cordially,
Bunk
 
Those cartridges look pretty close to mine. Good job!

Might take em and with a small bowl with melted BP lube ... dunk the ball end and gently shake ... turn ball/lubed cartridge uprite ... ball end up ... allow to completely cool, then you have a self lubricated black powder paper cartridge that is pretty historic and shoot great ... very easy to load and are fun to mess with.

Done like I do em ... I am not sure TIME WISE that a feller could clean, reload and shoot in the newer SAA ... metal cartridges faster then using these paper cartridges overall time comparison.

Always wanted to do a timed test of 25 or 50 cartridges comparing ;

forming, filling, ball'ing and lubing and loading these paper cartridges

to

cleaning, sizing, belling, priming, powdering, bullet'ing and crimping loading and shooting... with the added task of removing and keeping track of the empty's.

I betcha that this comparison would be very close to each other timewise ... AND ... way cheaper on the paper percussion cartridges

Hmmmmm ... sounds like time to put the experiment to the test and report back in a proper posting of itz own.

Maybe two or three or more could carefully time each step for each step and report a comparison ... then we could run comparison between folks that do and report to get a basis more rounded instead of one person only that might be handier in one area then another.

Might be interesting?

If you pre-cut your paper for making paper cartridge and call it even time for tumbling brass, anyway I can run off 600 per hour for the cen%$#fire stuff, in terms of reloading, now shooting and loading, hands down it goes to brass.
 
Thread is going off the rails, my reply above was also to blame.
To the OP the Eras Gone mold is the way to go for your intended project.
 
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