36 cal Navy ball?

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by jrmflintlock, Jul 26, 2019.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

  1. Jul 26, 2019 #1

    jrmflintlock

    jrmflintlock

    jrmflintlock

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 13, 2010
    Messages:
    956
    Likes Received:
    74
    Location:
    Nothern Nevada
    i just uncovered a 36 cal Navy (I think) that my buddy gave me about 15 years ago. He gave it too me in a box. It was in pieces and all rusty. I cleaned it up and put it back together. And forgot about it. Bore is bright and chambers are good. What caliber ball would I shoot out of it? How many grains of fff?
    I’m very new to percussion Revolvers, but loving my 1960 Army’s!!!
    Thank!!
     
  2. Jul 26, 2019 #2

    Phil Coffins

    Phil Coffins

    Phil Coffins

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2017
    Messages:
    314
    Likes Received:
    118
    Location:
    Colorado
    .375” ball and 20 grains of fffg
     
    Rifleman1776 likes this.
  3. Jul 26, 2019 #3

    jrmflintlock

    jrmflintlock

    jrmflintlock

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 13, 2010
    Messages:
    956
    Likes Received:
    74
    Location:
    Nothern Nevada
    Thanks!!!
     
  4. Jul 27, 2019 #4

    Grenadier1758

    Grenadier1758

    Grenadier1758

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,369
    Likes Received:
    454
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Some things we may have to do for ourselves. In cases such as jrmflintlock's situation, a measurement of the chamber diameter will tell us what ball size to recommend. Jrmflintlock, can you read any of the markings to tell us the maker? This also helps to determine a starting ball size and powder charge. Can you remove the nipples? Measure the tip of the nipples to determine if you need #10 or #11 caps. Many of these revolvers have either a factory nipple that may or may not need #10 caps or it may have aftermarket caps that work better with #11.

    My Uberti Navy Reb and Uberti 1858 Navy both measure 0.375 at the chamber. A 0.375 ball will fall out of the chamber. I need a 0.380" ball. Dial calipers are inexpensive and easy to use for both inside and outside measurements.

    You have an 1860 Army. What ball does it shoot? Is that ball very much larger than the chambers of your Navy? Measurements please.

    36 caliber Navy firearms are a joy to shoot. You will have a good experience when you get the parts you need.
     
  5. Jul 28, 2019 #5

    jrmflintlock

    jrmflintlock

    jrmflintlock

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 13, 2010
    Messages:
    956
    Likes Received:
    74
    Location:
    Nothern Nevada
    It says is 36 CAL. NAVY MODEL made in Italy on one side and HAWES FIREARMS CO LOS ANGELES CALIF.

    Any one know anything about HAWES Firearms Co? I have never heard of them. I will do a search as soon as I get a chance.

    I am shooting .454 out of my Army.

    I did not even think to mic it! Duh!
    Chambers are .373
    Muzzle is .370

    I think .375 will be just the trick!

    Nipples are good. No peening and they are easy to remove. I have both #10 and #11 caps but looking at them they look like #10

    I can’t wait to shoot it! Thanks!
     
  6. Jul 28, 2019 #6

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,870
    Likes Received:
    194
    Location:
    Winchester, VA
    Hawes was an importer, mostly moderate quality firearms. They imported a line of blackpowder guns in the late 60s, early 70s. I don't know when they went out of business. My first C&B revolver was a Hawes brass Navy circa 71. $29.95 in the box, times have changed. I shot .375 +/- balls from a Dixie brass bag mold, I seem to remember it being about $3. 18 grains of Dupont 3f was the most accurate charge. Of all my blackpowder guns I believe I got the most fun per dollar from that revolver.
     
  7. Jul 28, 2019 #7

    Gee Dog

    Gee Dog

    Gee Dog

    36 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Among other C&B pistols I’m fortunate to have four Piettas in .36, three of which are open tops and one’s a Remington. They all handle .380 beautifully. Three can use .375 well enough but one (1861 Pietta 1997) absolutely-positively has to have .380 because a .375 will lurch forward in the chambers from recoil. All of them produce a measurably tighter pattern with .380 over .375 because of a bit more bearing surface.

    The open tops do well with 20-22 grains of black or sub and the Rem likes 25 grains of whatever is on hand.
     
  8. Jul 28, 2019 #8

    8 BORE

    8 BORE

    8 BORE

    50 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,024
    Likes Received:
    192
    Location:
    Missouri CSA
    Hawes also imported .44 single action revolvers from Germany. Top quality
     
  9. Jul 29, 2019 #9

    sawyer04

    sawyer04

    sawyer04

    40 Cal MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    97
    Location:
    missouri
    I bought a Hawes 44 in Germany for $7.50 in us dollars and it was top quality.
     
  10. Jul 29, 2019 #10

    8 BORE

    8 BORE

    8 BORE

    50 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,024
    Likes Received:
    192
    Location:
    Missouri CSA
    Thats a big 10-4
     
  11. Jul 29, 2019 #11

    Smokey Plainsman

    Smokey Plainsman

    Smokey Plainsman

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,328
    Likes Received:
    99
    Get a .36 ball and about a half thimble full of powder.
     
  12. Jul 29, 2019 #12

    Pete44ru

    Pete44ru

    Pete44ru

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    726
    Likes Received:
    15

    AFAIK, 36cal rifles usually use a .350" patched round ball; but 36cal C&B revolvers have a larger bore & generally use a .375" round ball.
     
  13. Jul 29, 2019 #13

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Moderator Staff Member MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Messages:
    28,513
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I don't think the 36 caliber revolvers have a larger bore than the 36 caliber rifles. Usually, both of them have a .360" diameter bore.

    The rifling grooves in the revolvers are often about .005" deep so the diameter of the rifled area is about .370. Because the bullet or ball in the chamber must fully engage the rifling and seal it off, the diameter of the chambers in the cylinder are usually around .371" in diameter.
    In order to seal these chambers and to keep the ball or bullet tightly in the chamber, the ball or bullet needs to be larger than the chamber diameter so, a .375" diameter ball or bullet is often used in a 36.

    A muzzleloading rifle on the other hand usually uses a patched ball. To seal .370 or larger diameter of the rifling grooves the combined thickness of the patched ball and the patch must be larger than this but, it can't be too large or it will be too tight to load into the muzzle.
    This is where the give and take of figuring out which size ball and what thickness of the patch works out to be the best compromise for acceptable loading difficulties and good accuracy.
    Usually something like a .350" diameter ball and a .010-.012 thick patch in a handgun is chosen. In a rifle, with its increased powder load and its larger size making it easy to get a grip on, a .350 diameter ball and a .015-.018 thick patch is chosen.

    Getting back to the cap & ball pistols, many of the reproduction guns have chambers that are actually smaller than the groove diameter in the barrel. I have no idea why this is the case but it often is.
    In order to get the most accurate pistol, the ball must be larger than the rifled grooves in the barrel. That is why some people will measure the rifling groove diameter in the C&B revolver and then ream the chambers to a size about .001 larger.
    This can greatly improve the accuracy but it is at the cost of needing to find a suitability sized ball that will be at least a few thousandths of an inch larger than the new chamber diameter but available without needing to buy special sized ball molds and casting balls just for this gun.

    For most of us, the existing, often undersize chambers in a cap & ball revolver will work just fine for the shooting we do. :)
     
    Jacobeen likes this.
  14. Jul 29, 2019 #14

    sawyer04

    sawyer04

    sawyer04

    40 Cal MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    97
    Location:
    missouri
    OH, I forgot to mention I bought the Hawes 44 in Germany in 1971. Haw, Haw, Haw!!
     
  15. Jul 29, 2019 #15

    jrmflintlock

    jrmflintlock

    jrmflintlock

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 13, 2010
    Messages:
    956
    Likes Received:
    74
    Location:
    Nothern Nevada
    I read that Hawes imported from Germany, but this one says Made in Italy. I also read they imported a few from Italy. Not a collectors item by any means. valued somewhere between $50-$300. It is mechanically sound so I'll just shoot it and have fun with it. After measuring and looking last night I think .375 with a paper cartridge will be what I try first since I picked up a box of .375 balls.
     
  16. Jul 29, 2019 #16

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,870
    Likes Received:
    194
    Location:
    Winchester, VA
    Hawes cartridge revolvers were made by Sauer in Germany. As far as I know the blackpowder ones were all Italian though I have no idea as to who in Italy made them.
     
  17. Jul 29, 2019 #17

    Grenadier1758

    Grenadier1758

    Grenadier1758

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,369
    Likes Received:
    454
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Wrapping your cartridge in paper should be unnecessary since the chamber measured 0.373" the paper will be scraped off in loading. In a revolver, the balls should not be patched.

    Paper cartridges are fun and can make loading a bit easier but making the cartridge with a nitrated paper can be time consuming.
     
  18. Jul 30, 2019 #18

    F.G. Ford

    F.G. Ford

    F.G. Ford

    62 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    34
    $7.50 for a Hawes revolver???? Exactly how many decades ago did this purchase take place.
    You couldn't buy a part ( sear, trigger, hammer, spring ) for $7.50
    At that price, I would have bought 10 revolvers.
    Five revolvers for each side. Just imagine that holster.
    I may not be the fastest draw, but I would have the most shots.
    Have a great day!
    Fred
     
    azmntman likes this.
  19. Jul 30, 2019 #19

    sawyer04

    sawyer04

    sawyer04

    40 Cal MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    97
    Location:
    missouri
    1971, yep, those were the days. We enjoyed the black powder sport within a budget, made our own accessories.
     
  20. Jul 30, 2019 #20

    F.G. Ford

    F.G. Ford

    F.G. Ford

    62 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    34
     

Share This Page

arrow_white