.32 Crockett - PRB vs conical

[mahkagari]

Got some maxis from TOW for my Crockett build. 125 gr with 35 gr of 3F is slower on the Crony but has more muzzle energy than PRB with the same charge. Traditions manual says 35 is the max load. I was surprised how poor the accuracy was with the conicals at 25 yards. Old timer at the range told me not to expect much from it with conicals in the Crockett's slow twist.

Thoughts?

 

[azmntman]

I noted same results. PRB is all I shoot in mine now. If I need more distance I go to .36 or .45. My .32 Crockett is a strictly small game rifle.

 

[arcticap]

You can get a better idea about realistic maximum .32 loading data in this thread.--->>> https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/32-caliber-ballistics.34542/

For instance, it's mentioned that the TC manual lists 50 grain loading data for their .32's with 102 grain bullets.
I'm not recommending to exceed the Traditions manual loads.
However revolver manuals seem to obviously understate safe max. loads.
My feeling is that they worry about liabilty if folks accidently double charge their sidelock guns with powder.
Sometimes additional RPM's can make an accuracy difference with a slower twist.

Are you using a wad or card under the bullet?
Are you using any filler such as Cream of Wheat, semolina or grits?
Trying any of them can also affect accuracy as well as pressure.
There's always different powders and different powder charges whether higher or lower.

I read a post just today where someone mentioned using a patch around the base of a conical bullet up to the 1st driving band.
I suppose that it's only a .005 patch.
But you never know what may work.
Remember, the 1st shot out of a cold, clean barrel counts the most.

 

[Carbon 6]

What twist is the crocket? I had a CVA squirrel rifle that shot maxi balls one hole. I actually preferred them in that gun. They were much easier to handle than those tiny round balls too.

 

[arcticap]

The Traditions .32 Crockett rifle has a 1 in 48" twist.

 

[Carbon 6]

Odd, so was the squirrel rifle if memory serves me.

 

[rodwha]

Got some maxis from TOW for my Crockett build. 125 gr with 35 gr of 3F is slower on the Crony but has more muzzle energy than PRB with the same charge. Traditions manual says 35 is the max load. I was surprised how poor the accuracy was with the conicals at 25 yards. Old timer at the range told me not to expect much from it with conicals in the Crockett's slow twist.

Thoughts?

If a conical is what you prefer you can always have Accurate Molds work up a design of your choosing and have it a bit shorter. I did this for my Pietta NMA thinking it had the slower 1:30 twist. My 195 grn WFN conical is only .460” long, about the length of a ball. As it turns out it has a 1:16 twist but still shoots them and my 170 grn version that’s only .400” long just fine to 15 yds at least (haven’t shot further).

 

[Grimord]

My CVA .32 squirrel rifle has a 1:56" twist, and i believe the T/C .32 Cherokee had a 1:36" twist to use PRB and conicals. I never tried conicals in any of my .32's. I see them as strictly small game or target guns and they have all the energy i need for squirrels and rabbits. I suppose if you are going for something larger the conical would do the job, but i would just go to a bigger bore.

 

[arcticap]

Some folks posted that the .32 Cherokee had a 1 in 30" twist.--->>> https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/32-caliber-t-c-cherokees.108098

Both the CVA .32 Varmint and Squirrel Rifle were reported to have a 1 in 48" twist.
However there could have been other CVA barrels with other twist rates for the Squirrel.
The 1980 CVA catalog was also said to list the .32 Squirrel Rifle as having a 1 in 48" twist.

 

[Sparkitoff]

I experimented with 125 grain conicals quite a bit. I wanted my young sons to be able to take game like smaller rams and goats and blackbuck (that we have a lot of around here) which run around 70 pounds live weight. I thought the low recoil would be helpful to them for maintaining accuracy. One thing I noticed was that the bottom edge of the conicals we bought had a small radiused edge and were slightly concave. In other words, they would not stand straight up when on a flat surface. I used a file to rub the base on until it was flat and the radiused edge came off. That increased accuracy tremendously. Then, when loading the conicals would got in about a quarter where they hung up a little. I could slowly force them in with a short starter, even thumb. However, I started whacking them with a rubber mallet. Just one swift whack. This would seat them fully in the muzzle where the short started was then needed. I supposed the conical was slightly upset by the "whack". It did improve accuracy even more. Trying over powder wads proved fruitless. Varying powder charges made slight differences. Then added lube to conicals. Used SPG lube and rolled the projectile across the tray. It is messy but you don't need a lot. Eventually 32 grains of FFFg was most accurate. It was percussion and it liked Triple 7 FFFg or Goex FFFg about equally. A spit patch between shots was routine. After removing the radius edge, flattening base, lubing with SPG and whacking with rubber mallet, the 125's would group 2 1/2" at 50 yards out of this 1:48" ROT barrel. That seemed to be the best it would do with the experimentation conducted. After all that I loaded the .32 except a cap and put it on the bench, and on the next bench I had my .54 flintlock loaded without a pan charge. My son said he was ready to shoot again. He sat down, picked up and .54 and fired. He then declared that was his new favorite rifle! I said I didn't prime the pan and he said he did it, he's "not stupid". Teenagers.... so much for all that work with the .32.

 

[Grenadier1758]

With conicals, its more about the depth of the grooves than the rate of twist. With deep grooves, you have gas cutting resulting in poor accuracy unless you use a stout charge that obturates the bullet enough to fill the grooves. The first order of business with a conical is to size the diameter of the bullet to the bore. The second is to use a lubricant stuff enough to hold the bullet in place and to soften fouling. Paper patching the conical bullet will help in filling the bore and in matching the bullet to your barrel.

 

[Grimord]

Some folks posted that the .32 Cherokee had a 1 in 30" twist.--->>> https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/32-caliber-t-c-cherokees.108098

Both the CVA .32 Varmint and Squirrel Rifle were reported to have a 1 in 48" twist.
However there could have been other CVA barrels with other twist rates for the Squirrel.
The 1980 CVA catalog was also said to list the .32 Squirrel Rifle as having a 1 in 48" twist.

I think you are right about the Cherokee twist rate. I re-read Toby Bridges article on the .32, and he said it was he who recommended that T/C go with a faster twist on the small caliber Cherokee and Seneca so both conicals and PRB could be used. As for my CVA, is is the Grey Squirrel model, and it is stamped 1:56 on the barrel. So i guess CVA used different barrels for different models.

 

[arcticap]

I think you are right about the Cherokee twist rate. I re-read Toby Bridges article on the .32, and he said it was he who recommended that T/C go with a faster twist on the small caliber Cherokee and Seneca so both conicals and PRB could be used. As for my CVA, is is the Grey Squirrel model, and it is stamped 1:56 on the barrel. So i guess CVA used different barrels for different models.

I definitely believe and agree with you about those CVA .32 Squirrel Rifle barrels.
I looked at multiple reference threads and saw both twists mentioned.
I once saw a shorter and lighter weight CVA .36 Squirrel Rifle barrel for sale at a muzzle loader shop that was going out of business and it wasn't the same .36 barrel that I had.
It was still new in the wrapper too.

 

[nkbj]

When you're shooting lead bullets in a muzzleloader the bullet needs to have a close fit to the barrel. And the rifling pattern matters as much as the twist.

 

[nkbj]

TC engineered their bullet designs to work in their barrels.
When you step out on your own you're getting to do the fun part all over again.

 

[BOOMSTICKSKI69]

You can get a better idea about realistic maximum .32 loading data in this thread.--->>> .32 caliber ballistics?

For instance, it's mentioned that the TC manual lists 50 grain loading data for their .32's with 102 grain bullets.
I'm not recommending to exceed the Traditions manual loads.
However revolver manuals seem to obviously understate safe max. loads.
My feeling is that they worry about liabilty if folks accidently double charge their sidelock guns with powder.
Sometimes additional RPM's can make an accuracy difference with a slower twist.

Are you using a wad or card under the bullet?
Are you using any filler such as Cream of Wheat, semolina or grits?
Trying any of them can also affect accuracy as well as pressure.
There's always different powders and different powder charges whether higher or lower.

I read a post just today where someone mentioned using a patch around the base of a conical bullet up to the 1st driving band.
I suppose that it's only a .005 patch.
But you never know what may work.
Remember, the 1st shot out of a cold, clean barrel counts the most.

Just get as close to actual Barrell diameter maxi minne conical. Get plastic bag. Squirt the bore butter of choice in with the bullets. Get a t-bone handled brass ramrod. You won't regret it. Use a good ball bullet starter. With that heavy ramrod
you will literally feel the conical accept the barrel twist all the way down the barrel. Me I buy best oldest heavy barreled muzzle loaders I can get my duck skinners on lmho. Fk measuring the powder. Hearing it go boom the smoke and that bullet obliterating it's target is worth the price of admission.i use 2 different premeasure funnels from the brass cylindrical powder horns. .32 up to 10ga yeeeeaaaaaahaw. Daniel gd Boone didn't measure . They put powder measure by feel by how funkin far there target was away practice hing kaaaaaabooom makes perfect GOD BLESS