1967 Intercontinental Arms .44 “Kentuckian” percussion rifle

[UndeadPoet]

Unfortunately we will probably never know who the manufacturer was. That's seems like a mid priced gun. Does it list the prices for Thompson Center, CVA or Navy Arms? If it has the prices of the others that would give you an idea where it falls in relation to the others of the time period. Good luck with it.

I stand corrected. I have the “Shooter’s Bible” for 1968. It does not appear to have any other blackpowder weapons in it. For apples to oranges reference, a Remington 700 BDL rifle lists for $154.95, and a Winchester Model 94 lists for $85.95 in the same book.

 

[ppg1949]

I stand corrected. I have the “Shooter’s Bible” for 1968. It does not appear to have any other blackpowder weapons in it. For apples to oranges reference, a Remington 700 BDL rifle lists for $154.95, and a Winchester Model 94 lists for $85.95 in the same book.

Thanks, that puts the price in perspective though it is apple to oranges like you said.

 

[Zonie]

Actually, I goofed up when I said my Kentuckian was an Intercontinental Kentuckian rifle. It was a Centennial Kentuckian.
Both of these names were the names of the importer company that sold guns in the USA. I bought it in 1971 or 1972 if I recall correctly.

Back in those days, there were dozens of importers bringing muzzleloading guns into America. It wasn't so much that there was a big demand for them but it was more of a ongoing reaction to the GCA 1968. Before 1968, all types of guns could be bought via mail order. GCA put an end to that by banning the sale of center fire guns by mail but black powder muzzleloaders were exempt from that law so, like I say, there was a rash of companies advertising in magazines and selling muzzleloaders.

Getting back to the Kentuckian, my "Guns Annual BOOK OF RIFLES" 1975, they show the gun in the BLACK POWDER GUNS section.
It listed for $149.99. A Hopkins & Allen Deerstalker underhammer was $99.95. A Hopkins & Allen Pennsylvania Long Rifle was $199.95.
Others: Dixie Gun Works Second Model Brown Bess, $225, Dixie Gun Works Zouave, $179.95, Navy Arms Brown Bess Musket, $325, Navy Arms Springfield .58 cal rifle, $200.00, Thompson Center Hawken, $205.00, Thompson Center Renegade .54 cal, $166.00, Tingle Model 1962 (.36 or .45 cal), $159.95.

 

[UndeadPoet]

Actually, I goofed up when I said my Kentuckian was an Intercontinental Kentuckian rifle. It was a Centennial Kentuckian.
Both of these names were the names of the importer company that sold guns in the USA. I bought it in 1971 or 1972 if I recall correctly.

Back in those days, there were dozens of importers bringing muzzleloading guns into America. It wasn't so much that there was a big demand for them but it was more of a ongoing reaction to the GCA 1968. Before 1968, all types of guns could be bought via mail order. GCA put an end to that by banning the sale of center fire guns by mail but black powder muzzleloaders were exempt from that law so, like I say, there was a rash of companies advertising in magazines and selling muzzleloaders.

Getting back to the Kentuckian, my "Guns Annual BOOK OF RIFLES" 1975, they show the gun in the BLACK POWDER GUNS section.
It listed for $149.99. A Hopkins & Allen Deerstalker underhammer was $99.95. A Hopkins & Allen Pennsylvania Long Rifle was $199.95.
Others: Dixie Gun Works Second Model Brown Bess, $225, Dixie Gun Works Zouave, $179.95, Navy Arms Brown Bess Musket, $325, Navy Arms Springfield .58 cal rifle, $200.00, Thompson Center Hawken, $205.00, Thompson Center Renegade .54 cal, $166.00, Tingle Model 1962 (.36 or .45 cal), $159.95.

Many thanks for the reference info, Zonie! I realize this rifle is not a handmade American-crafted weapon, but it looks good and feels nice in the hand. It seems very close to the Pedersoli specs, and they are around $750 right now, correct? It doesn’t seem like an “el cheapo” to me. I’m not saying that anyone has said that here, but I have seen it sort of referred to in that manner in other places.

 

[Zonie]

Well, IMO, the prices I listed above shows it was one of the middle cost, and maybe, middle quality guns. Back in those days the only "el cheapo" guns were the CVA's from Spain and some guns made in Belgium for export to Africa. Yes, these are the pieces of manure that were imported by Stoeger Arms Corp. In the book, "A Shooter'f Bible Publication BLACK POWDER GUIDE" by Major George Nonte, he says about these Stoeger imports, "These guns are still available today for decorative purposes only and are described below...."
Now, THOSE were el cheapo's.

I sold mine to a guy at a local gun show. I don't remember what the price was. Anyway, he was all charged up to shoot it and because it was a flintlock I spent a good half hour telling him about the need to use real black powder, how to load and prime it, how to adjust the flint and a bunch of other things.
About 2 years later, I ran into the same guy at a gun show and I asked him how he liked shooting it. With a rather disgruntled face he said, "I haven't shot it yet. When I got it home, my wife thought it was so neat and so nice, it should hang on the wall and I wouldn't be allowed to actually shoot it."
It's probably hanging on their wall today, never again to re-live the day when it was carried out into the desert by me and it was used to kill a javelina.
That javelina went down like a semi-truck hit him when he was hit and never moved a muscle.

 

[ppg1949]

Actually, I goofed up when I said my Kentuckian was an Intercontinental Kentuckian rifle. It was a Centennial Kentuckian.
Both of these names were the names of the importer company that sold guns in the USA. I bought it in 1971 or 1972 if I recall correctly.

Back in those days, there were dozens of importers bringing muzzleloading guns into America. It wasn't so much that there was a big demand for them but it was more of a ongoing reaction to the GCA 1968. Before 1968, all types of guns could be bought via mail order. GCA put an end to that by banning the sale of center fire guns by mail but black powder muzzleloaders were exempt from that law so, like I say, there was a rash of companies advertising in magazines and selling muzzleloaders.

Getting back to the Kentuckian, my "Guns Annual BOOK OF RIFLES" 1975, they show the gun in the BLACK POWDER GUNS section.
It listed for $149.99. A Hopkins & Allen Deerstalker underhammer was $99.95. A Hopkins & Allen Pennsylvania Long Rifle was $199.95.
Others: Dixie Gun Works Second Model Brown Bess, $225, Dixie Gun Works Zouave, $179.95, Navy Arms Brown Bess Musket, $325, Navy Arms Springfield .58 cal rifle, $200.00, Thompson Center Hawken, $205.00, Thompson Center Renegade .54 cal, $166.00, Tingle Model 1962 (.36 or .45 cal), $159.95.

Zonie, thanks for the price comparisons. Two really caught my eye. The Tingle and the Renegade. If you could find a Tingle now it would be expensive. And the Renegade 54 for $166. I bought a Renegade 54 two months ago for $165 in minty condition. I knew I was getting a deal but had no clue that was a 1975 price. As they say "even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then", Thanks again.

 

[UndeadPoet]

Well, IMO, the prices I listed above shows it was one of the middle cost, and maybe, middle quality guns. Back in those days the only "el cheapo" guns were the CVA's from Spain and some guns made in Belgium for export to Africa. Yes, these are the pieces of manure that were imported by Stoeger Arms Corp. In the book, "A Shooter'f Bible Publication BLACK POWDER GUIDE" by Major George Nonte, he says about these Stoeger imports, "These guns are still available today for decorative purposes only and are described below...."
Now, THOSE were el cheapo's.

I sold mine to a guy at a local gun show. I don't remember what the price was. Anyway, he was all charged up to shoot it and because it was a flintlock I spent a good half hour telling him about the need to use real black powder, how to load and prime it, how to adjust the flint and a bunch of other things.
About 2 years later, I ran into the same guy at a gun show and I asked him how he liked shooting it. With a rather disgruntled face he said, "I haven't shot it yet. When I got it home, my wife thought it was so neat and so nice, it should hang on the wall and I wouldn't be allowed to actually shoot it."
It's probably hanging on their wall today, never again to re-live the day when it was carried out into the desert by me and it was used to kill a javelina.
That javelina went down like a semi-truck hit him when he was hit and never moved a muscle.

I hope he finally got to shoot it, Zonie. Thank you for all your help.

 

[Pete G]

Mine cost $139 in 1973, but I was only making $775 per mo. so it was somewhat costly.

 

[UndeadPoet]

I stand corrected. I have the “Shooter’s Bible” for 1968. It does not appear to have any other blackpowder weapons in it. For apples to oranges reference, a Remington 700 BDL rifle lists for $154.95, and a Winchester Model 94 lists for $85.95 in the same book.

I just went back through my 1968 Shooter's Bible, and found a Hopkins & Allen entry. A flintlock or percussion .36 or .45 Minuteman Muzzle Loading Rifle was $149.50. They also listed five different underhammer models, ranging from $44.50 (The All-American Muzzle Loading Rifle in .36 or .45) to $79.50 (The Heritage Model Muzzle Loading Rifle in .36 or .45). For comparison, the Intercontinental Arms flintlock or percussion .44 Kentuckian muzzle loading rifle (like I have) was $125.00. I have attached .pdf images of the pages. It is interesting, but my 1967 Kentuckian has a 35.5" barrel and is 50.5" long versus the ones in 1968 (which were 2" shorter, respectively).

 

[rafterob]

I bought a Kentuckian barrel used off ebay about 10 years back. This was actually .45 and is the 33.5" x 7/8 barrel. Built a simple fullstock flintlock around it. The thing is a tack driver.

 

[UndeadPoet]

I bought a Kentuckian barrel used off ebay about 10 years back. This was actually .45 and is the 33.5" x 7/8 barrel. Built a simple fullstock flintlock around it. The thing is a tack driver.

That's great, rafterob! Was it an Intercontinental Arms Kentuckian? Other than the proof marks, was there any other brand identification anywhere on the barrel? Just curious.

UndeadPoet

 

[rafterob]

Mine was marked Euroarms. Again just another importer name. They were all the same rifles manufactured by ? in Italy. Other than the Italian proof and date marks, Kentuckian, and Black Powder only there were no mfg. marks. I defarbed the barrel so there are no marks on it now.

 

[rafterob]

A little research of Italian makers from the 60's hint at either Armi Sport (Chiappa) or Pedersoli as being the likely manufacturers.

 

[UndeadPoet]

A little research of Italian makers from the 60's hint at either Armi Sport (Chiappa) or Pedersoli as being the likely manufacturers.

Thanks, again! Mine seems to be, pretty much, spot-on to the specs for the current Pedersoli Kentucky rifle, but I don't know much about Armi Sport (Chiappa)'s muzzle loaders (I am familiar with Chiappa .22 copies, etc.). Mine is surprisingly light (compared to my .50 Hawken), and I think the stock is "delicate" (not meaning, "not sturdy," just "trim."). I like it. I am having a devil of a time trying to get the top tang screw out. I don't believe it has been removed in the 53 years since it was placed there, and the slot is just getting stripped as I try.

 

[Klaus]

Hi Gent`s,

I've received my Kentuckian Rifle Cal.45 yesterday evening. Seems to be unfired and in mint condition.
I have just disassembled the Lock and clean the Barrel with WD 40.
Pic`s are following next time... Mine are from Adler Jaeger buildt in 1981 AH stamp.
regards Klaus

 

[UndeadPoet]

Ausgezeichnet! Wilkommen, Klaus!

UndeadPoet