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1858 Rem. New Army Police .36

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Ravenx

36 Cal.
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I see Cabela's has a 1858 Remington New Army Police revolver in .36 with 6" barrel. Now, is this a copy of an actual revolver caliber-wise? Did Remington really make this? And was there really a Colt 1851 "Civilian" model in .44? I just wonder if these are actual copies or they took some liberties with the facts. Anyone have either of these?
 
Dixie Gun Works claims they made 25,000 of these from 1863 to 1875 and it was a stiff competitor to the 1851 Colt.

I don't know about the 1851 Colt Navy in .44 caliber for civilian use? Colt most likely made guns by special order for folks. As far as a production run I would have to see some documentation as the .36 caliber was considered the civilian model I always thought, and they called it the Navy. Hope that makes sense? :hmm:

.44 caliber was for the Army, and .36 caliber was for the Navy.
 
I'm at my office, away from my reference books, so you'll forgive me if I have to run off brain-fumes ...
But, as far as has been ever determined, Colt made the 1851 Navy in only two calibers: the standard .36 caliber and a few experimental revolvers of .34 caliber. Or was it .40? I can't remember which. Anyway, as far as regular production and procurement by civilians and the military, the Model 1851 was only available in .36 caliber.
Colt referred to this model as the "Belt Pistol." Because of the naval battle engraved on its cylinder, it came to be known as the "Navy." In truth, the Army purchased far more of the Model 1851 than the Navy did.
I'm really fuzzy-brained on the 1860 but I think it was initially called the "Holster" or "Horse" Pistol. Anyway, I know that bullet moulds intended for this model are marked with an H to indicate their use. I just can't recall what that H referred to.
As for the 1851 Navy in .44 caliber, I wouldn't suggest it. Because the cylinder is intended for the smaller .36 caliber, it doesn't have as much powder capacity as the other .44 calibers.
I had a Navy .44, brass-framed, back in the 1970s. As I recall, my maximum load was 30 grains of FFFG black powder. That's all I could get in, and still leave room for a ball (this was before I began using lubricated felt wads).
Heck, the .36 caliber Colt Navy will hold 24 to 27 grains of FFFG, depending on the maker.
My Pietta-made Remington .36 will take up to 30 grains, or slightly more if I don't use a greased felt wad. The Remington's capacity is a little more than the Colt's.
I enjoy my Remington .36, which sports a barrel of 6" or thereabouts. It's accurate but like all Remingtons, doesn't balance or point nearly as well as the Colts.
Experienced gun handlers --- whether the real pistoleros of yore, fast-draw enthusiasts or trick shooters --- have praised the Colt 1851 Navy as one of the finest balanced and natural-pointing revolvers ever made.
I saw a documentary some years ago, of a man twirling, tossing, back-rolling and holstering a Colt 1851 Navy. It was incredible how he could manipulate that revolver. I recall him saying that even the later Colt Single Action Army cartridge gun wasn't as well balanced as the 1851 Navy. When he wanted to put on a show, and didn't need to shoot, he used the Colt 1851 Navy.
If he was going to shoot, even blanks, he used the Colt Single Action Army cartridge gun since it was faster to reload (the audience gets bored if they have to wait whle you reload).
The Remington .36 is a good design, however. It's just not as balanced as the Colt. It's also more affected by powder fouling. The larger cylinder pin of the Colt, on which the Colt's cylinder rotates, shrugs off fouling longer. After three or four cylinderfuls, the Remington will drag and become harder to cock because of fouling.
But heck, it's a simple matter to pull the cylinder pin, wipe it clean with a rag, clean out the corresponding hole in the cylinder with a Q-tip moistened with soapy water and reassemble.
It's not like anyone's shooting back at you!
I'd suggest you handle both guns at your local gun store, if you can find them, and see which best fits your hand. Being comfortable with how a revolver feels is a huge step toward being accurate with it.
That's true of all pistols and revolvers, by the way, modern and antique. If it doesn't feel right in your hand, or feels clumsy, you very likely won't shoot it very well.
 
Thanks for the great information, Gatofeo and Ohio Joe. I appreciate it. I suspected those various .44 1851s were made-up phonies. I'm going to go with the .36 1851. Are the ones Cabela's has good shooters? Can't afford a Uberti.
 
Well, kinda-sorta.....Remington made the New Model Navy revolver, which was a six-shot .36 caliber that was a smaller frame than the New Model Army. 1858 is actually a patent date, and the NM Army was preceeded by the Remington-Beals and the 1861 Army model. In 1863, they made changes to the base pin arraingement and the "New" Model Army Revolver was born.

The Italians use the same frames on either the NM Army or the "Navy" or "Police" models, so it is considerably larger than the original Remington model of this caliber.

Remington also made the New Model Police Pocket revolver in .36 caliber....it was smaller yet and had a five shot capacity. If you ever get to see "Pale Rider" with Clint eastwood, the smaller revolver he tucks in the front of his belt is a NM Police.

Colt never made a "44 Navy". This is the invention of the italians. Colt did make a few, very few, .40 caliber experimental models of the 1851. The 1861 Army revolver uses the same basic frame as the Navy, except it is 'stepped' to allow the rebated 44 cylinder. The rear section of the Navy and the Army revolvers is the same size. Colt added material to the front of the cylinder to accomodate the larger .44 ball. Until this model, if you wanted a 44 "Colt", you were pretty much limited to a Dragoon sized "Horse" pistol. The larger dragoons (Walkers too) were commonly carried in pommel holsters on your saddle. A few astute frontirsmen, such as "RIP" Ford of Texas Ranger fame, carried a pair of these large revolvers in civilian style flapped holsters on a waist belt.

Now, that said, and knowing the Remington .36 replica is not really that close to the original, it is still a fine shooting weapon and fun to boot! I have friends who have the "44 Navy Colt's" and they like them and they are well balanced....personally, i keep the "Navy" in 36 and when i want to use the .44, i drag out my "Army" models.
:m2c:
 
The last I knew of, Cabela's carried the Pietta revolvers. I have a few and I have no complaints. I would recommend the steel frame revolver's over the brass. You will pay a bit more now, but in the long run you'll get a lot more mileage out of them over the brass frame models. Also, you have to load lite when using the brass framed revolvers if you want them to last a lifetime.

I have steel frame revolvers that are twenty five years old and shoot great to this day! You wont be sorry going steel frame. :thumbsup:

Check out Musketeer's post in this percussion section; "Interesting article for Cap & Ball Shooters"... It's a good one! :applause:
 

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