1851 Colt 2nd generation question

[Snooterpup]

Hello everyone!
Do the actual Colt made 2nd generation revolvers have the “short arbor syndrome” or any other problems associated with the imports. I’m not talking about the “signature or third series” Colts. The 2nd generation that actually letter as a Colt, built to Colt’s specs by Iver Johnson are the ones of interest.
Thanks…

 

[Phil Coffins]

Yes.

 

[Snooterpup]

Yes.

Dang! Thanks Phil. Any recommendations of best out of box? Pietta or Uberti?

 

[Phil Coffins]

Pietta has the right arbor but if you can handle putting a spacer in the Uberti they are dandy. Neither is perfect.

 

[Snooterpup]

Pietta has the right arbor but if you can handle putting a spacer in the Uberti they are dandy. Neither is perfect.

I’ve seen a bit about the spacer. I can measure and machine one on the lathe but my question is how is the best way to permanently attach the spacer in the arbor well? Press fit? JB Weld? Other options?

 

[Pzart]

I used JB, put some on spacer, put in bottom of well, greased end of Arbor then assemble and let setup for a day, sure others will chime in..

 

[45D]

I’ve seen a bit about the spacer. I can measure and machine one on the lathe but my question is how is the best way to permanently attach the spacer in the arbor well? Press fit? JB Weld? Other options?

Well, that's the "hard way" to make a spacer, a much easier way would be a SS #12 sheet metal screw for belt pistols or a #14 for horse pistols. Cut the head off, and grind it down to fit using a drill motor, Philips head bit and a bench belt sander (maybe 10 mins. your first time) Anyway, the rounded part of the head gets cradled in the bottom of the drilled arbor hole and the basically flat surface is excellent for contacting the end of the arbor.
As for keeping the spacer in place, I use JBWeld but I start 2 small holes across from each other at the junction where the drilled hole starts transitioning to the point of the drilled bottom. That will give two anchoring points for "insurance".

Mike

Oh, The spacer size from measurements won't work. The correct size will be when you reach your target endshake number. This means the spacer will be under pressure from the installed wedge (and driven in. Thumb pressure won't work.)

 

[45D]

As far as the Colt 2 nd gen action parts, they need a lot of dressing!! They're the same as all the other 70's parts of the day (except ASM Horse pistols, they look alien!!) . The bolt screw pin hole may be broken through at the top. Today's Uberti parts would have been amazing to Sam!!!

Mike

 

[Snooterpup]

Well, that's the "hard way" to make a spacer, a much easier way would be a SS #12 sheet metal screw for belt pistols or a #14 for horse pistols. Cut the head off, and grind it down to fit using a drill motor, Philips head bit and a bench belt sander (maybe 10 mins. your first time) Anyway, the rounded part of the head gets cradled in the bottom of the drilled arbor hole and the basically flat surface is excellent for contacting the end of the arbor.
As for keeping the spacer in place, I use JBWeld but I start 2 small holes across from each other at the junction where the drilled hole starts transitioning to the point of the drilled bottom. That will give two anchoring points for "insurance".

Mike

Oh, The spacer size from measurements won't work. The correct size will be when you reach your target endshake number. This means the spacer will be under pressure from the installed wedge (and driven in. Thumb pressure won't work.)

Mike,
Great tutorial on fixing the problem with the tip of properly fitting by endshake with the wedge driven in.
Thank you for this great concise easy to follow instructions.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Hello everyone!
Do the actual Colt made 2nd generation revolvers have the “short arbor syndrome” or any other problems associated with the imports. I’m not talking about the “signature or third series” Colts. The 2nd generation that actually letter as a Colt, built to Colt’s specs by Iver Johnson are the ones of interest.
Thanks…

I have a "C" series 1851 Navy that is nearly 50 years old and still is as tight and accurate as the day I bought it. I have no idea how many rounds I've put through it in those 50 years but it is in the thousands. Don't know how long the arbor is, but there is no end shake. And the Colt blue still looks amazing! Dan

 

[45D]

I have a "C" series 1851 Navy that is nearly 50 years old and still is as tight and accurate as the day I bought it. I have no idea how many rounds I've put through it in those 50 years but it is in the thousands. Don't know how long the arbor is, but there is no end shake. And the Colt blue still looks amazing! Dan

I'll tell ya how long the arbor is . . . "not long enough"!! Lol!!!!
If you drive the wedge in a little further, you'll probably lock up the cyl.! (Which is why you .
describe it as having no endshake!! And is proof the arbor is short.). Are there witness marks on the end of the arbor and /or the bottom of the arbor hole? (That's definitive proof)? Never saw one that had a correct length arbor and I'm pretty sure yours is short as well. But hey, if you're happy with it like it is,( different from the originals) that's all that matters.

Mike

 

[Nameless Hunter]

Hello everyone!
Do the actual Colt made 2nd generation revolvers have the “short arbor syndrome” or any other problems associated with the imports. I’m not talking about the “signature or third series” Colts. The 2nd generation that actually letter as a Colt, built to Colt’s specs by Iver Johnson are the ones of interest.
Thanks…

On a side note, this is an excellent video on the Colt 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Gen revolvers from duelist 1954.
The 1851 2nd Gen's were 100% machined/finished by Colt, not Iver Johnson.

 

[Sean E Bug]

the short arbor is there by design and is not a flaw. back in he day manufacturing was not at the same level of precision we enjoy today. it allows for easier hand fitting of the parts and if everything had to bottom out at the same time.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I'll tell ya how long the arbor is . . . "not long enough"!! Lol!!!!
If you drive the wedge in a little further, you'll probably lock up the cyl.! (Which is why you .
describe it as having no endshake!! And is proof the arbor is short.). Are there witness marks on the end of the arbor and /or the bottom of the arbor hole? (That's definitive proof)? Never saw one that had a correct length arbor and I'm pretty sure yours is short as well. But hey, if you're happy with it like it is,( different from the originals) that's all that matters.

Mike

All I'm saying is that it's near enough 50 years old, has a large number of rounds through it and looks and shoots the same as when it was new. I've never had the cylinder jam up and I am very pleased with it. For $125.00 I consider it a bargain. If people feel like playing with their arbors more power to them. Dan

 

[Stantheman86]

My 2nd Gen Dragoon 3rd Model has the short arbor.....

My Uberti London Navy doesn't , by sheer chance and luck I guess

 

[45D]

My 2nd Gen Dragoon 3rd Model has the short arbor.....

My Uberti London Navy doesn't , by sheer chance and luck I guess

Better check again Stan! That'd be a "first in history "!!

Is there a contact ring on the bottom of the arbor hole? (What makes you say it's not short?)

Mike

 

[Stantheman86]

Better check again Stan! That'd be a "first in history "!!

Is there a contact ring on the bottom of the arbor hole? (What makes you say it's not short?)

Mike

There is a contact ring in the Arbor hole and I gave the wedge a few enthusiastic whacks with a brass hammer , and the barrel/cylinder gap did not move.

 

[45D]

Awesome! What year is it?

Mike

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I’d be wary of shooting a Colt 2nd or even 3rd gen.

Collector’s value on them is skyrocketing. They haven’t been made in decades and they deserve to be preserved for collections.

Buy an Uberti or Pietta if you want a shooter. They’re just as well made honestly.

 

[Whitworth]

I’d be wary of shooting a Colt 2nd or even 3rd gen.

Collector’s value on them is skyrocketing. They haven’t been made in decades and they deserve to be preserved for collections.

Buy an Uberti or Pietta if you want a shooter. They’re just as well made honestly.

Snagged 2nd generation Colts, 1860 Army and 1862 Pocket Police recently in unfired condition. One box is a water damaged mess, the other has no box so these are shooters.