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1849 Colt 31 cal for self defence?

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The German

36 Cal.
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I am interested to add a 1849 colt replica to my collection. Like the looks and feel of them. They seem to be quite concealable and I could see that people were carring them. Can't find much about how the compare ballistic wise with a modern cartidge and stopping powder. Where the enough for self defence. I know pocket pistols in 22 short were popular as were 25 autos later on, but personally, I think I would prefer a good sized knife over a 22 short....
So whats about the 31 roundball from a revolver....
 
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. july 5 / 23:30

the closest i could find from my ballestic's coefficient table, a .319" round ball has about 597 fps and 40 ft/lbs muzzle energy with a 10grain FFF charge... it only goes up slightly with the 13gr load..

compare that to another item in the table (a ruger old army .45 caliber with 41gr FFF) that put out 1036 fps and 340 ft/lbs muzzle energy and you see that the 1849 might come up a little short in other than point blank conditions..

keep in mind that model does not have the reloading level attached, so you'll have to deal with intense smoke and flash with each subsequent round fired and only one chance to get it right.

now, as negative as this might sound, i personally do keep a snub nose .454" (3" barrel cut from a sheriff model colt) loaded and ready to go in the nightstand..

like yourself, it just looks and feels comforting even though i know it would only be somewhere between a .22 and a .38 ballistically..

i've never read anything positive from 'professionals' about using black powder for modern self defense.. i have my reasons regardless..

ultimately it's up to you.....

.... :hatsoff: ~d~
 
You know the old saying "Any gun is being better than no gun at all" with that being said. If the situation restricted me to owning only a black powder revolver for defense. I would go with a bigger caliber and use the .31 as backup. "But this day and time I would have to choose a modern revolver or semi-auto for my personal defense. When it comes to my personnel protection I want something that works every time the trigger is pulled and has the power to drop something or someone in its tracks".You cannot count on a blackpowder pistol doing this. In 1849 that was the back up gun of it's day. Close range, quick to draw, easy to hide. I don't think they cared as much about ballistics back then. They knew what worked and the.31 worked. You also have to remember caliber wise they did not have that much to choose from.
 
More '49's were sold than any other model Colt produced...Whats that tell ya?
I was reading on the CAS site where shooters were filling thier 49's with 4 fff and getting
900 fps....I dont advocate this procedure but some are doing it!
 
In its normal configuration, the M1849 Colt Pocket Pistol does indeed have a loading lever. The M1848 baby dragoon does not. Both are .31 call revolvers.

If you want to see what it will do, go to the grocery store and buy a boston butt pork roast. Go to your range and set it at 10 feet. Fire a few shots into it and check its penetration. This should give you a real world idea of what the .31 round ball can do.
 
I have one with the Kirst Konverter so I can shoot it percussion or cartridge. It's anemic at best but better than nothing.
 
Well, if you take the muzzle energy and fps numbers that Lemat 1856 gave us & compare them to modern ammo, (I googled muzzle energy for handguns), the .31 is way short of either a .22 short or a .25 auto, not to mention .22lr and .32 auto. Notice that we are not yet up to a .380 which is considered a minimum defense cartridge by some and sub minimum by others. If you want a .31 Colt for fun & plinking, go for it. If you have actual self defense needs, spend the money on something with more "punch". :wink:

.31 Colt fps 597 muzzle ft lbs 40
.25 auto - fps - 786 - ft lbs - 64
.22 short fps - 1130 - ft lbs - 82
.22 LR fps - 1138 - ft lbs - 97
.32 auto fps - 900-ft lbs - 116
 
They were made and sold for self defence. As for effectiveness, consider the level of medical care available in those days. Gut wounds were always fatal even with the best care. Attackers at that time would have taken the "little pop gun" very seriously.
 
One problem is that in years past, bad guys were smarter. They knew that getting shot was a bad thing. Today, most of them are too stupid (and hopped up on drugs) to realize that they've been shot.
 
Don said:
Ballistically the .31 compares to the .25 acp. A mouse gun for sure but I still wouldn't want to get shot in the face with one.

Don

Well I think you put your finger on it, no body wants to get shot, even a little bit. With the state of medicine of that era a .22 was about as deadly as a .44, it just took a week longer to get there. They were carried more for a threat than for a shootout.
But today there are much better choices available. Consider that one is legally justified in shooting only if the opponent represents an imminent threat, such as weapon in hand. Do you really want to shoot them with something that for sure will not put an instant end to the threat? Personally I'd go for more power.
Then there is the reliability issue. I very rarely have a misfire with C&B revolvers that I have tuned up and loaded but I have never found a 100% solution to spent cap jams. What may be only an inconvenience on the range can get you killed in a fight. Power is good, accuracy is nice, but 100% reliability is paramount in a defensive weapon and I've never found that with cap&ball revolvers.
If I faced an altercation when I happened to be carrying a C&B revolver I would not feel unarmed, but if I expected trouble I would for sure be carrying a modern firearm.
 
One word answer: NO!

For all of the mouse gun reasons previously posted.

You're buying this piece as a curiosity item, not for self defense. To do otherwise would be foolish!

Self defense requires a gun that will always fire. A S&W Chief's .38 Special with +P Hydro-Shock rounds should do the trick.
 
I didn't see where German wanted the pistol for self defense.
The way I read his OP he was just curious about the use of a little .31 pistol "back in the days".

IMO, the little .31's were popular because of their light weight and the ease of concealment.

Adding up the Patersons, 1848's, 1849's and Roots, Colt made over 370,700 .31 caliber cap and ball guns. Then we can add the Manhattan Pocket pistol (4,800), Remington-Beals 1st model (4,700?), Remington-Rider (2,000), Remington New Model Pocket Revolver (25,000) and numberless copy-cat clones and small Derringer and boot pistol single shots and one can see that the little .31 caliber "mouse gun" was very popular indeed.

There are of course many larger caliber pistols that were used during the mid 1800's that were more effective but these were also larger and more difficult to conceal.
"My Lady" of that era would rather be caught dead than to walk down the street with a military sized handgun and most "gentlemen" then also wanted an easily concealable defensive arm.

I think we modern people put too much faith into muzzle energy. The little .31 with a full chamber load was/is quite capable of penetrating from the front to the back of a human if the shot is in a soft area like the stomach.
Such a wound in the 1800's would often be fatal. As others have mentioned, it might not be immediate but within a week most people shot in the mid-drift could look forward to a slow, painful death. Not something to be taken lightly.
 
scalper said:
More '49's were sold than any other model Colt produced...Whats that tell ya?
I was reading on the CAS site where shooters were filling thier 49's with 4 fff and getting
900 fps....I dont advocate this procedure but some are doing it!
I do believe the old Lyman Black Powder Manual has some loads for using 4f in it. My problem is that if 3f blows caps down in these actions pretty regular I can only imagine what 4f will to to the busted cap..
I did once shoot some Hornady "O" buckshot from one of these into an old Numrich Gun Parts catalog I was surprised how deep it went.........Seems like page 650 or so using 15 grains of 3f Swiss.......................Bob
 
Guy's ,
I don't want to carry one for self defence- I was wondering how people felt about the small caliber - I agree, it's like carring a S&W Mod 36 with a 3 inch barrel ( size wise) but I personally feel a 38 spec or 32 acp would be minimum. Doesn't help me if the bad guy dies a week later after killing me... But then my grand father had a 25 auto and he shot a guy in the pelvis and that stop the guy cold - he never felt he was undergunned carreing a 25 acp...
I am wondering if a 31 is more like a 22 short or closer to a 22 lr... Would it penetrate a scull regulary, how deep would it penetrate at let's as a chest shot.... any accounts/reports about using a 31 in self defence in the old days....
If I would have lived 150 yr ago I would be o.k. carreing a Rem in 44 or a Colt, I guess even the 36 navy would be quite o.k. Would I have used a 31, I don't know, likeing the 1849 is one thing but defending myself with one? I think I would have a cut down navy in 36 or even a 44 cut down...
 
Josey Wales ( by Clint Eastwood) carried a '49 in a shoulder holster...
if you would get whacked in the head by that .31 ball going 700 feet per second It would surely take all the " fight outta ya" even if it didnt kill ya.
 
Leatherbark...I have no problem with cap fragments in my Uberti '49. I USE REMINGTON #10's.

I have read in many places where they state that the asassins favorite weapon is a .22...
go figger... in fact ther was a man shot here back in the 70's with a .22 thru the heart at Pratts Bar...he struggled to get to the nearest house 75 feet away and died on the porch in 3 minutes.
 
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