1754, 1770 - 1776 Charleville Musket Significances in AWI

[FlinterNick]

99. 99% of the public viewing a re-enactment could care less if a Regiment of Continental Army soldiers has 1730 or 1777 pattern French nor do they even know the difference . As long as it's a flintlock with bright steel and barrel bands , it's good enough for the reenactments I saw at Monmouth or Trenton NJ.

Reenactors sometimes get really picky just to have something to get picky about.

A Pedersoli 1795 is basically their 1766 Charleville with different lock stamps. I would have no problem carrying mine if someone needed me for some Continental Army living history. No one is going to care, you have a "big cool looking military musket" that's all people generally care about.

I do some Living History and even the other people involved kinda told me to calm down a little, I was getting too nitpicky with my gear.....they're like "you have a big,shiny cap lock musket and you're dressed like an 1860s farm hand , you're fine just shoot some blanks and make kids laugh"

The only 1777 I would ever consider using is a corrected 1777 An Xi. I owned a 1777 with the clamped middle band and screwed on front band, not a very practical design. I lugged the barrel with The threaded screw and it still was not sturdy. Pedersoli’s 1777 front band, simply screws to the barrel with no lugged attachment, this is a flaw which I don’t consider acceptable for shooting, all it takes is to not return the steel ramrod and load with 100 grains and that front band could fly off easily. The original 1777 had a lug in the shape of a half crescent moon for which the screw was attached to, even then the design was considered flawed.

 

[springfield art]

The pedersoli 1766 is more closer to the 1763 heavy charleville, the earlier production of the 1766. Several factors stand out one of them being that the pedersoli charleville weights about 11 lbs, even the heaviest Charleville weighted only 10.15 lbs (the 1763).

And to make it more entertaining the pedersoli charleville is called the Leger model.... that’s French for light pattern.

I own a pedersoli 1766, and I love it its well built sturdy and the large comb handles well for aiming becuase of the 2 3/4 drop...but i like calling it a pedersoli charleville, a spade is a spade. In order for this musket to be a 1763 the lock needs to be larger, around 6 7/8 inches long and the barrel band system was very unique.

See the pictures.

View attachment 17816

The labor and materials involved in mfg. of repro muskets is a huge investment. Its a miracle at all that we even have such items at our disposal. A company in Italy can't,
of course, fret about tiny little differentiations to satisfy picky-picky buyers. I have a Pedersoli Charleville I found at auction, and really like it, too. Thanks!

 

[FlinterNick]

The labor and materials involved in mfg. of repro muskets is a huge investment. Its a miracle at all that we even have such items at our disposal. A company in Italy can't,
of course, fret about tiny little differentiations to satisfy picky-picky buyers. I have a Pedersoli Charleville I found at auction, and really like it, too. Thanks!

I’m working on a TRS kit for the 1763 pattern and I can’ honestly say that the quality of the pedersoli musket is better, especially the barrel bands.

If I could get the 1763 lock on the pedersoli gun, it might be perfect but I don’t the 1763 lock is just too long.

I won my 1766 on auction a few years ago, I changed out the sling swivels, they were not staying put, and I added more robust side lock bolts.

Below is the original 1763 barrel band and some changes I made to the 1766.

 

[Stantheman86]

People in America, at least, are not going to stop calling the various French muskets "Charlevilles" especially given that 50% of the repros are sold to dudes who bought a Pedersoli 1777 at Cabelas because they wanted a "Continental Army Musket" . Once a repro gunmaker labels a gun as something (Charleville) it's pretty much gonna be called that forever.

Let's face it, a meeting of all of the people who actually, truly care about the differences between various French muskets could probably fit in a closet. Most people just don't know or care.

Which I think is a point of pride , just like how I'm trying to get Nessler balls to work and I'm doing all kinds of experiments. How many people actually care about Nessler Balls, like 3?

 

[FlinterNick]

People in America, at least, are not going to stop calling the various French muskets "Charlevilles" especially given that 50% of the repros are sold to dudes who bought a Pedersoli 1777 at Cabelas because they wanted a "Continental Army Musket" . Once a repro gunmaker labels a gun as something (Charleville) it's pretty much gonna be called that forever.

Let's face it, a meeting of all of the people who actually, truly care about the differences between various French muskets could probably fit in a closet. Most people just don't know or care.

Which I think is a point of pride , just like how I'm trying to get Nessler balls to work and I'm doing all kinds of experiments. How many people actually care about Nessler Balls, like 3?

Generally the most acceptable continental Charlevilles are the older out of production Miruko 1766 muskets, I have one and will never let go of it. Its one of the most accurate designs I’ve seen from a factory gun, the lock is beyond a doubt the best flintlock I’ve ever used, sparks like a Zippo and I’ve never had to change the frizzen.

A really great pick up is a defarbed pedersoli 1777. I’ve seen a few 1777 with the Brass pan changed out for a steel pan and the frizzen is changed out too, not easily done but can be done and the butt stock is carved down to 1774 pattern. This is also done with a special order from Pedersoli, you have to have the butt stock recess omitted, I’ve seen 2 or 3 over the years, not a great copy of the 1770/74 pattern but it works, to do this however Pedersoli will charge you nearly $500 more for the special order.

 

[dave_person]

People in America, at least, are not going to stop calling the various French muskets "Charlevilles" especially given that 50% of the repros are sold to dudes who bought a Pedersoli 1777 at Cabelas because they wanted a "Continental Army Musket" . Once a repro gunmaker labels a gun as something (Charleville) it's pretty much gonna be called that forever.

Let's face it, a meeting of all of the people who actually, truly care about the differences between various French muskets could probably fit in a closet. Most people just don't know or care.

Which I think is a point of pride , just like how I'm trying to get Nessler balls to work and I'm doing all kinds of experiments. How many people actually care about Nessler Balls, like 3?

Hi,
The value of this forum is that we share knowledge and information. In short, active participants share a lot and learn a lot. Comments and information put forward are vetted by other knowledgeable people and I think the cross pollination of information eventually results in reliable knowledge. During that process hopefully we shed myths, misconceptions, and ignorance. I don't really care what the general re-enactor public call French muskets without detailed education, but participants here can get that education and really have no excuse once they do of perpetuating myths, misconceptions, and ignorance. I would hope we are better than Facebook and You Tube.

dave

 

[Stantheman86]

I'm starting small, by correcting people at the range who call stuff like my CS Richmond a "Musket".

Them - "Cool a Civil War musket"
Me - "Well its actually a rifle , a Musket doesn't have rifling"
Them- "I used to have one of them Muskets"
Me - "ok man yeah they're a lot of fun"

I'll work on the Charleville misnomer next summer, I guess . I'm keeping it basic for now

If there's one thing in the shooting/history/reenacting world that will never die, it's gun show lore and movie "fact".